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Seen some distinctly odd toots appearing from accounts in the western US (since roughly start of waking hours in California) saying "battery-electric vehicles are a dead end, the future is [OH LOOK A WOOKIE]". Not people I've ever engaged with previously.

I suspect the petrochemical industry astroturf bot farms have finally reached Mastodon ...

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

It appears to be a full court press. I've seen a few articles like this in recent days:

tech.slashdot.org/story/23/10/…

What the industry really doesn't want is inexpensive vehicles with little markup, which is where the technology is driving the market. They want to make big trucks and SUVs for as long as humanly possible.

Als Antwort auf Junco

@Junco Yeah, like that! (RTGs; 50 watts of endless power ... from a 50kg package that costs $50M. Only deep space missions out past Jupiter need apply!)
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

@Junco You will of course be aware of the folks who want to do RTG with short-half-life isotopes. Including some folks who want to power nanobots with radioactive aluminium.
Als Antwort auf Junco

@Junco @graydon Plutonium RTGs do not have that particular problem, since they emit alphas rather than betas.

But engineers only figured out how to make them sufficiently sturdy after a kilo of plutonium got scattered across the landscape.

Als Antwort auf Linza

Not to worry, pretty much every A-bomb and H-bomb atmospheric test during the 1940s and 1950s—and there were hundreds of them—scattered even more plutonium! Mostly by vaporizing it and thoroughly mixing it with the atmosphere at altitude.
Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (1 Jahr her)
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

@Linza @Junco @graydon For those with older teeth, a few atoms of that plutonium is still in them (next to the remaining strontium).
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

they probably got bored on twitter and are looking for new feeding grounds
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

Yes. I would expect an astroturf campaign to be a bit more circumspect, though. BMW at least is on the record with only lukewarm enthusiasm for BEV and continued support for ICE vehicles. There are more than enough billionaire-funded crazy-„news“ orgs and channels around to serve as good amplifiers, and the conventional press, especially Springer (BILD, Welt) will jump on the bandwagon at the right moment. It will appear as part of their long-running anti-Green campaign.
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

I've been seeing the same thing across many platforms this week. Someone is aggressive pushing the idea that EVs are a failure. I'm not really one to defend EVs exactly, but..... it's definitely weird. Someone is trying to pump something related to the Chevron acquisition.

Charlie Stross hat dies geteilt.

Als Antwort auf scott

@scott
There was a Jalopnik article stating that Toyota are laughing all the way to the bank as EVs aren't selling in the US but hybrids and PHEVs are super in-demand that got surfaced to me via various algorithms and seems to get quoted as inconvertible truth in comment threads. Wonder if its coincidence or part of an anti EV push aiming to overturn or weaken the laws being considered to ban sales of fossil fuel vehicles around 2035?
Als Antwort auf RojCowles

@RojCowles @scott EVs aren't selling partially due to an infrastructure gap. There's a general lack of public fast charging stations in huge swaths of the country. Standardize fast charging stations, possibly co-locate them with gas stations, and make neighborhood charging stations a reality, and far more people will buy EVs.
Als Antwort auf Mike Ferdinando

@MikeFerdinando @RojCowles @scott Are you American? Because if so, kindly stop generalizing your hyperlocal concerns as if they apply to the entire planet.
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

@RojCowles @scott Sorry. I'm in another discussion about EV sales in the US and the frustrating infrastructure barriers to adoption, and didn't realize this was a different thread.
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

A lot of urbanist/transit advocates sincerely hate battery-electric vehicles because they see them as an inferior alternative to, and a distraction from, mass transit-- they want to eliminate personal vehicles (apart from bicycles).

But that doesn't look like what's happening here.

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (1 Jahr her)
Als Antwort auf Matt McIrvin

@mattmcirvin
I still want to know how these urbanists are carrying home 100+ pounds of bottled water every weekend. Tap water isn't safe in most of America.
Als Antwort auf argv minus one

@argv_minus_one @mattmcirvin
If I wanted to, I'd put it in my bicycle trailer. Use the big one and I'd still have another 50kg or so of capacity.
Als Antwort auf Major Denis Bloodnok

@denisbloodnok @mattmcirvin
That works if you're thin enough to ride a bike and strong enough to carry that much load, but a lot of people (myself included) are far too out-of-shape/old/disabled for such a feat.
Als Antwort auf argv minus one

@argv_minus_one @mattmcirvin To a very great degree, I can do these things because I do do these things, but this is besides the point. It's some pretty serious car brain to go "problem, the municipal water supply is unfit to drink" and conclude the solution is for everyone to collect bottled water in a car (or, it being the USA, a Wankpanzer the size of Mars) and to hell with anyone who can't drive, rather than that the USA should catch up with the Victorian era.
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag

Charlie Stross
@JackEric You're talking about trolley buses. Quick question; how much do you think maintaining, repairing, and retensioning the overhead wires costs? And what happens if something snags and tears down the wires? Pay special attention to passing pedestrians and bicycles dealing with the 600 volt unshielded power ...
@jack
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

Looks like it. The 'solar panels are toxic' and the 'heat pumps only work on the equator' bunch too

Charlie Stross hat dies geteilt.

Als Antwort auf The Penguin of Evil

@etchedpixels Are there really people claiming heat pumps only work at the equator? Because I'm in Manitoba, there's snow on the ground already, and our heat pump's been keeping the house warm (and cool, in the summer) for like 15 years now.
Als Antwort auf Patrick Johanneson 🚀

@pjohanneson Uk targetting petrol/gas smogheads insist that heatpumps don't work in the UK as it's too cold and solar because it's too far North. I guess the trolls tailor to their audience ?
Als Antwort auf The Penguin of Evil

@etchedpixels @pjohanneson Solar *is* problematic here in Scotland; in midwinter we get 6 hours of light out of every 24, so would be reliant on storage and need far more area under PV to make it work. (And we tend to live in dense apartments, so less roof area per person. And power consumption maxes out on winter nights for heating, not summer daytime for air conditioning.)

However we're a world leader for wind farms, which currently provide 94% of our power.

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

@etchedpixels @pjohanneson here in Ayrshire we saved approx 60% of our electricity bill ( cooking, washing, lighting) last year thanks to solar and battery. But the house still uses gas for heating though.

workshopshed.com/2023/10/solar…

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

@etchedpixels @pjohanneson The most north I’ve been in Scotland is Ullapool, and that is still south of Stockholm. Here we have quite a lot of solar power, and I believe it’s quite popular even further north, but totally relying on it is difficult, as you say.

Even if dense apartments mean less roof space, they leak less heat, so that’s an advantage.

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

@etchedpixels @pjohanneson

Have you seen this design of direct heating via windmill?

solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2019…

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

Weird because it is so easy to consciously not see many kinds of things on here. I suppose it happens when you venture out into the federated timeline?
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

Trolley buses, trams, suburban rail, high-speed rail. There is not the street capacity to sustain personal-car-as-the-norm. Not aware that the OLE is a particular hazard, and the installation and maintenance cost of OLE rapidly breaks even vs the cost of sustaining and maintaining an on-board power supply on every vehicle
Als Antwort auf jack

@JackEric Well, as long as you're not advocating OLE for single user cars!
@jack
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

I was reading an arstechnica article's comment section (I think it was on the post about toyota's ev concepts they make not make) and there was a back and forth between "the numbers show that electric cars are sitting on lots!" and “are you nuts more and more EVs are selling constantly, look at these numbers"

I think it settled on the first someone trying to extrapolate from the F-150 Lightning's relative struggle to sell, which might possibly be due to the ones you can actually buy being the ones that start at $70,000. vs the actual sales numbers, which are going up.

Plus there's the confounding factor that car prices in general are becoming massively inflated due to [choose your reason].

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

They're going after the cars, but I still have to think it's legacy petrochemical that's pushing it.
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag

dr2chase
@skry Able-bodied doesn't really need the "e" if you can avoid hills. Decades of car-induced sloth have left a huge hunk of the population ignorant of what they could do on a bike, if they tried and kept at it for a few months
@skry
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag

Charlie Stross
@Giliell @dr2chase @skry I work *in* my home. And before I did that, I hadn't had a commute that was more than a 25 minute walk from home in the previous 15 years.
Als Antwort auf dr2chase

@dr2chase @skry Yes, because the earth is flat and we all work within 10 miles of our home 🙄
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

OH A WOOKIE!

battery-electric vehicles are a dead end. there is no further progression or evolution

the above statement is not representative of my opinion nor of my employers. (hollywood)

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

battery-electric wookiees are a dead end, the future is LEGO star wars playsets
Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (1 Jahr her)
Als Antwort auf jack

@jack is inside your PHONE

You surely have visited rural areas, right? Like, e.g. villages of ~2000 people, miles from each other and many more to the next city. Vehicles without any kind of stored power on board won’t work there. Not even trolley buses.

And then, there're lot and lots of service and delivery vehicles. Mail and stuff, work vehicles also collecting trash. Now, what about farm and forest work? Maintenance of PV and wind farms?

The odd fringes are much bigger than they might appear.

I guess there will be no silver bullet tech solution, once again.

@Charlie Stross

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

hmmm, odd. Personally, I am entirely convinced by electric drive trains, and not at all by the energy storage technology we use to power them.
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

@lisamelton Ok, let me try: Electric cars are a dead end, the future is bikes, walking and public transportation😁That’s what they want, right?
Als Antwort auf Ferrichrome

@Ferrichrome @lisamelton No, ALL forms of transportation involve some sort of compromise until we get to teleport booths (point to point, optionally with luggage up to furniture- or pallet-size) and seven league boots (for unbounded personal mobility)!
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

Electric cars are a dead end...

...because cars and car centric infrastructure is a dead end. The future belongs to walkable infrastructure supported by train supremacy.

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

@dr2chase @skry That's nice for you. Have you considered the possibility that your experience may not be universal?
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

I have seen a lot of posts like that on TikTok and on Apple's news aggregator but not here, mercifully.
Als Antwort auf Giliell

@Giliell @dr2chase @skry Yes, I'm fully aware of it! The problem is, folks advocating on the basis of current day American car culture don't seem to realize it's not a universal either.
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

@dr2chase @skry I'm not American. So, do you agree with the above that no able bodied person needs a car because they can bike?
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag

Charlie Stross
@mjj @RojCowles @scott If BEVs really catch on in the US, I can see a revival of the old highway motel—only now with a charger outside your room, and an on-site 24-hour diner. (Drive for your 500-600km range, book a room, plug in to recharge, eat supper and sleep for a few hours, then resume journey.)
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

@mjj @RojCowles @scott Between climate and geography, I don't think that's practical in some of the mountain states.
Als Antwort auf Raven Onthill

@ravenonthill @mjj @RojCowles @scott All the more of an opportunity for motel owners! (Seriously, motels were a big thing in the US until cheap air travel, and today's EVs are far more mechanically reliable and comfortable to drive than cars were back then—the biggest issue is how to combine recharging with travel, and meal/overnight stops with chargers would work. (Plus the cultural drawback of Americans getting virtually no vacation time ...)
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

@mjj @RojCowles @scott there's no shortage of highway-adjacent hotels and motels in the US, but asking them to install DCFC infrastructure would be a lot, without unlikely federal subsidies - more likely that money will flow into dedicated charger stations, there is funding in the infrastructure act that's getting started on that. L2 charging will take ca. 12 hours to fully recharge current vehicles.
Als Antwort auf Jon

@oddhack @mjj @RojCowles @scott Sounds like a regulatory issue—to definte existing motels as dedicated charger stations and make them eligible for subsidies to install the infrastructure.
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

The website Yahoo.com has been running various anti electric cars article all week. Many of those are from business news. What is going on with this BS? I have an EV and would never drive or buy another combustion engine automobile.

Charlie Stross hat dies geteilt.

Als Antwort auf janlouzel

@janlouzel I don't get it, but it does seem to be in alignment with a bunch of "EVs R BAD" pushing to the front of the line on YouToob.

The more it shouts at me not to go EV, the more I wonder if that's the way to go going forward. What is the shouting all about?

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

@janlouzel mmmmmmhmmm. I mean, I drive maybe 450 miles a month. My extremely efficient ICE car scares 'em...

But the 40mpg lineup of hybrids of all sizes Toyota has must be freaking them out.

Als Antwort auf alberta is a hoax

@palkyrie @janlouzel I got rid of my diesel car 18 months ago. (It did 45mpg and could hold 7 adults.) 40mpg hybrids are disgustingly inefficient—or ridiculously over-sized compared to my old Volvo V70 estate.

(I ditched it after discovering that during COVID I drove less than 200 miles a year.)

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

@palkyrie @janlouzel
Driving 300 miles a week I have no issues driving around in an EV. Although I do have off street parking.
It has been from Cambridgeshire to Portmerion, Lincoln and even down to Brighton.
It was the range of my bladder that dictated when the car was charged.
The real range issues I have is finding a model to carry either a mobility scooter or electric wheelchair.
Als Antwort auf janlouzel

@janlouzel
My yahoo.com regularly runs articles from the Telegraph about how heat pumps don't work in the UK.

It's like they want to reopen all the coal mines or something.

Als Antwort auf RealGene ☣️

@RealGene @janlouzel
To me, this has all the hallmarks of the social engineering component of a multi-front propaganda campaign, likely orchestrated and financed by the petro companies. Expect to see contrarian scientific studies by little known researchers published online and cited in the WSJ and NYT soon.
It's a well worn strategy pioneered by the US tobacco companies. They always use it because it always works.
Here's the all too familiar reference material:
npr.org/2023/10/17/1183551603/…
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

Just got cross linked an article that used as a premise that EV sales are going poorly because the year over year increase in sales velocity was only 49%, while it was over 60% last year.

So not the number of sales ( vastly up), not the increase in sales ( vastly up), but the % increase in the increase. But it was also in an absolute number.... because it turns out sales were down in the specific metrics they were looking at so even that was false. Was something else.

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

One just hit CNN's homepage today. edition.cnn.com/2023/10/29/cli… I haven't seen such a well-coordinated full media blitz like this in a while.
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

ROFLMAO!

Cuz no lobbyist would pay me.enough to sell my sould for that lost cause.
mstdn.social/@kkarhan/11132108…


actually no.

#Batteries are shit and the #downtime due to #Charging is a huge cost factor.

Remember: At peak-efficiency taxis literally only.stop and turn off engines to offload/onload passengers change drivers, refuel or do unavoidable maintenance.

youtube.com/watch?v=B78-FgNqdc…
youtube.com/watch?v=SB9EARKvCT…
youtube.com/watch?v=AqHsXv7Umv…

Not to mention >99% of all airborne particle emissions are tire and brake dust.


Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

I think I see the petrochemical etc. right in this thread, which I suspect doesn't shock you too much :D
Als Antwort auf Raven Onthill

@ravenonthill @mjj @RojCowles @scott Totally doable. There are only four major routes (90, 80, 70, 40), total of maybe 20 stations. Get the feds to do it, add the chargers to existing truck stops so you're not making any new offramps. Most or all of those places *already* have functioning motels, and if the demand's there for more somebody will build them.
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag

Charlie Stross

@scott @ravenonthill @mjfgates @mjj @RojCowles I think he's questioning the likely footfall at the charging-equipped motels—would it be sufficient to sustain a business.

(I'm postulating to a future where Americans refuse to give up driving but don't build out high speed rail and have to reduce their flying significantly when I propose a need for supercharger-equpped motels.)

Als Antwort auf Raven Onthill

@ravenonthill @mjfgates @mjj @RojCowles I have. I'm not sure why you think it's impossible to build charging infrastructure in mountain states? especially since there's already a lot of charging stations in Colorado. again I'm not really an ev defender, it's just sort of a weird claim to make.
Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

@scott @ravenonthill @mjj @RojCowles If you need the chargers, you'll need *some* amount of sleeping space, but that's really adjustable? Wyoming already has some incredibly tiny motels, like four or six rooms, on the route from I-80 to Pocatello. It's cheap to build more, it's easy to abandon them, capitalism does both of those things really well. Also the major truck stops have rooms; Little America was an entire real hotel when I last went through.