Anyone here using one of those little diesel heaters to warm rooms in a house? Like: amazon.co.uk/HCALORY-Adapter-C…
I guess adequate (safe!) exhaust arrangements are the key difficulty.
Even without using the electric central heating our electricity bill really spikes in the winter from the sporadic small electric fan heater use, and I'm a bit tired of living so cold and damp.
Not sure if burning diesel to save on electricity fits for the #SolarPunk hashtag or maybe something else, like #EnergyPoverty. Our UK normal waking hours electricity costs something like 33p/kwh (0.38€, 0.44$US, 0.67$AU) — I'm surprised there isn't more uproar about it really. (I also have the solar panels I git cheap and hopes for a small solar project for our "office" power, but that needs a fair bit of spend on battery and charge/iverter stuff.)
Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺
Als Antwort auf Yvan • • •Yvan
Als Antwort auf Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺 • • •@leobm that's higher than I expected.
I think I am used to seeing the French prices (under 25ct?)
"Back home" (Australia) it is half what we pay in the UK, similar in the US I think. (As much as you can compare across counties in terms of cost of living/etc.)
(I have not taken into account standing charges mind, just the kw/h rate.)
Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺
Als Antwort auf Yvan • • •Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺
Als Antwort auf Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺 • • •It must be said, of course, that nuclear power also had a positive influence on this. France generates around 70% of its electricity from nuclear power plants with low marginal costs (around 6 cents/kWh),
Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺
Als Antwort auf Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺 • • •Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺
Als Antwort auf Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺 • • •Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺
Als Antwort auf Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺 • • •The problem is that in Germany and the UK, we are still far too dependent on fossil fuels such as gas, etc., for heating and power generation.
The actual generation of electricity from new onshore wind turbines costs 4.1 to 8.5 cents/kWh, and from PV 7.0 to 12.7 cents/kWh, currently in Germany. In 2025, renewable energies such as onshore wind and solar PV will often drive exchange prices into negative territory, with 575 hours of
Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺
Als Antwort auf Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺 • • •negative prices by mid-December, which will reduce their cost-cutting effect.
However, what causes electricity prices to rise again and again is the fact that we are still dependent on gas.
And the merit order rule applies on the electricity exchange.
Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺
Als Antwort auf Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺 • • •Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺
Als Antwort auf Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺 • • •expensive gas has to cover the residual load, which drives up the overall exchange price, even if renewables supply 50-60%.
In the United Kingdom (UK), the merit order principle is also considered a central element of the electricity market, similar to Germany.
Yvan
Als Antwort auf Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺 • • •Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺
Als Antwort auf Yvan • • •Because here in Germany we also have certain groups (conservative and right-wing) who would either prefer to return to nuclear power or import Russian gas on a large scale again, and thus make us dependent on Russia once more. It's all a nightmare. 😢
Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺
Als Antwort auf Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺 • • •Yvan
Als Antwort auf Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺 • • •@leobm yeah, we rent and have no money so our options are very limited alas :(
Other countries are much colder than here of course. And hell, this December barely seems all that cold so far. Yay for global warming
econads
Als Antwort auf Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺 • • •Yvan
Als Antwort auf Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺 • • •@leobm yes, the allure of "cheap" Russian gas for power is a bad trap I think. I would be OK with paying *more* for power if it meant a total and thorough boycott of any Russian resources.
New nuclear has not even medium term benefits to bring, you cannot build it overnight, whatever the other misgivings about it.
Solar and wind we can deploy now, in volume, and battery tech like sodium is changing the storage landscape. Here in the UK a lot of spend is needed on core infrastructure, which would be a far better short/medium term return than any nuclear projects afaik.
I wasn't really meaning to be commenting on either issues with the UK electricity price, certainly wasn't meaning to draw any comparisons on electricity prices. Was just a background fact to my interest in these currently "popular" (in some circles) diesel heaters and if they may be a cheaper heating option vs our current electricity options.
But most likely I will just continue to put up with the damp and cold.
Yvan
Als Antwort auf Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺 • • •@leobm I was not suggesting anyone build nuclear power stations*, I wasn't even suggesting the UK power rate should be lower — the rate we pay just is what it is, a fact of life, and I thought it useful context wrt looking into alternative heating options that might be cheaper in my own circumstances.
\* Nuclear power isn't a topic I have super strong opinions about, I can leave that debate to better informed folks — though I do have a preference for "renewables" where possible and hopes to do my own solar & battery thing at some point.
Yvan
Als Antwort auf Felix 🇺🇦🚴♂️🇪🇺 • • •@leobm regardless of situations elsewhere, I cannot afford heating through a combination of my kw/h rate and living in a shit house. So pondering alternatives.
I mainly provided the currency translations for convenience given I know a mix of people across all those currencies on here. It's definitely interesting to see other takes on that aspect of things.
I guess the German rate explains the popularity of the balcony solar setups there (not yet legal in the UK, though change may be coming.)
andre
Als Antwort auf Yvan • • •And have you thought about installing an air conditioning system as a heating?
Yvan
Als Antwort auf andre • • •@a32 the place has very badly installed "instantaneous" electric water circulated central heating.
We rent so have to make do with minimum of intervention.
Budget, if we do anything at all, is in the region of a couple of hundred quid.
andre
Als Antwort auf Yvan • • •I'm in Germany where I would try to buy a mobile AC anyways, but, of course, it also depends heavily on the square footage etc..
Jaddy
Als Antwort auf andre • •@andre @Yvan Problems with mobile A/C "monoblocks“ for heating:
That's why we bought a standard split device. SCOP 4-5, works down to -15°C, hole in the wall has 5 cm ø, but the device outside is quite large. We noted though, that at outside temp <4°C it uses 2-3 times more power than above. Seems to be related to coolant, absorber size, defrosting, etc.
Data so far and projection says our electricity bill will not be higher than before (wood pellets) at 0,39€/kWh el; ~500 €/a for 60 m^2 at comfortable 21-22°C.
As for diesel heating or any similar CO/CO2 emitting devices, I’d be extremely careful indoor
... mehr anzeigen@andre @Yvan Problems with mobile A/C "monoblocks“ for heating:
That's why we bought a standard split device. SCOP 4-5, works down to -15°C, hole in the wall has 5 cm ø, but the device outside is quite large. We noted though, that at outside temp <4°C it uses 2-3 times more power than above. Seems to be related to coolant, absorber size, defrosting, etc.
Data so far and projection says our electricity bill will not be higher than before (wood pellets) at 0,39€/kWh el; ~500 €/a for 60 m^2 at comfortable 21-22°C.
As for diesel heating or any similar CO/CO2 emitting devices, I’d be extremely careful indoors. You need proper exhaust ventilation (= hole in the wall) and alarm devices. If you have the means (chimney, space, money, etc), I'd suggest a pellet oven to at least avoid fossil fuels (the eco friendlyness of wood pellets is debatable, though). These ovens are also automatic.
Yvan mag das.