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Let's be clear. This is a car. Four wheels. It weighs 225 kg empty and you can add up to 200 kg of cargo. That's not an electric bike, as the manufacturer claims it is. This is a small car that occupies and blocks the bike lane. This concept shouldn't exist. Us cyclists already have to deal with bad infrastructure. I see this as a provocation, not as the positive change it pretends to be. Such vehicles belong on the road, not the bike lane.

(Gift link, needs email) wapo.st/4nCgi10

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Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

“e-assist” lol. How far is that guy going to push it without electricity.
Als Antwort auf 𝓐𝓷𝓲𝓴𝓴𝓮 🌻 🚴‍ ♀

@Anikke in my limited experience they do. As do the bicycle rickshaws and most (not all) cargo bikes.
And whilst they are all wider than a two wheeled bicycle they are all a massive step towards sustainability, so should be encouraged as such.,
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

The intention is made clear by the manufacturer. This vehicle is specifically designed to be used on bike lanes, to avoid being stuck in car traffic. In practice this obviously means it'll block the bike lane or sidewalk while delivery is done, which can take minutes.

"Designed for Cycling infrastructure
eQuad Width 36 inches (910 mm)"

fernhay.com/equad/

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Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

Yes, maybe. But that picture looks like it’s in an American city. And as far as I know, UPS only delivers in the US. Bike lanes in the USA are few and far between, often only a part of the road, and often have little traffic, so there’s that.
Als Antwort auf Jeremiah C. Foster 🇸🇪🇺🇸

@jeremiah_ As I live in Germany since many years, I don’t know. Maybe @notjustbikes can help? (I do note however that bike lanes in the Netherlands are far wider than those in Germany, so it might be less problematic there)
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

@jeremiah_ @notjustbikes Maybe, but this needs to die before it spreads more. Decades battling to get bike infrastructure built and now the commercial goons want that too? Burn it down!
Als Antwort auf Jeremiah C. Foster 🇸🇪🇺🇸

@jeremiah_ yes. as long as it's not tampered with.

The difference is modern bike lane standards in the Netherlands are over 1.5m wide, and increasingly we have fietstraats which are several meters wide.

The issue isn't the pedal assist delivery vehicle. The issue is poor cycle infrastructure.

Als Antwort auf Quixoticgeek

@quixoticgeek In my limited experience I always thought The Netherlands had the best bike infrastructure.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

this monstrosity might have issues with those offset barriers or centre posts they put in the entry to cycleways to keep out cars and motorbikes, though I can see they might also create problems for cargo bikes.
I can see such barriers becoming more necessary. Or maybe these vehicles just need to be banned from cycleways.
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Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

I would disagree in theory and from practical experience. It is not legal (at least in Germany) to park a bicycle on the bike lane. There are already a few of these box van-like cargo bikes on the road in Leipzig. In contrast to the regular delivery vans, I have not yet seen such a cargo bike blocking the bike lane (but probably they will some day, like the regular vans). At the end of the day, these vehicles don't really take up any more traffic space than the traditional postal service cargo bikes. If they partially replace delivery vans, I can only see improvements.

In my view, the main problem is that there is a lack of loading zones everywhere and couriers and suppliers are therefore breaking the traffic rules.

Als Antwort auf trusty falxter 🧠

@flxtr
lack if loading zones
that is so good
really, a lot of the problem, and no one talks about it
Als Antwort auf trusty falxter 🧠

@flxtr +1. This type of electric assist miniature vehicle is widely used for deliveries in Berlin. I see several in use daily, but have never seen one parked in a bike lane. They're great for reducing combustion fleets and bringing small/mid-sized packages nearer to the door so that couriers don't have as much physical strain. If they were blocking bike lanes, that would certainly be unacceptable. But then deal with that legal violation. More ebikes and fewer big combustion vehicles is not something I'm willing to demonize without evidence that they're causing actual harm.

Incidentally, when delivery vans don't feel compelled to appropriate bus stops as loading zones, adoption of these smaller vehicles served as a big win for riders of public transit. These vehicles tuck easily onto parts of the curb that are not designated for either the walking lane or the bike lane. Sidewalks in Berlin are designed very differently than in the U.S., so that kind of public space sharing wouldn't be as seamless. But it can work.

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

For us (older?) Europeans it is hard to see why this monstrosity is a bike when we associate this kind of vehicle with the Piaggio Ape (soon coming back es electric vehicle, the Fiat Tris) which is of similar size but is classified as car (or motorbike, depending on version and country) and of course not allowed to use the bike lane.

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Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

it's classified as a moped or a car depending on its engine displacement
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Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

Addendum: yes, I know, in Germany the Ape in the 25 km/h max version is allowed to use the bike lane, but that version is very rarely seen anymore. And even when it was on the streets back in the 1960s/70s, that was also the time of far less bike lanes available.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

the simple solution is to make the bike lanes wider. Take a lane or two away from cars and make the bike lane bigger...
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

Addendum 2: Do you really think something like this belongs on the bike lane? (Picture source: fernhay.com/equad-and-the-circ… )
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

they could split a gridlocked car lane into a half car lane for half-vehicles and a bike lane for bikes.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

If it would be a bicycle/pedelec, there could be an argument for it 🤔😅
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

Having a width of 910 mm, it definitely can't qualify as a bicycle in The Netherlands, so it would be illegal to drive it on a bicycle lane here.

In other words, no, it doesn't belong on the bike lane.

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Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

Or this? cargocycle.de/#lastenraeder
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

Lightweight solar panels on top and a mini data centre inside, or maybe you could even live in it ?
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

would probably hope it has better tyres and brakes than it looks like it does.

But would probably agree that quadracycles should not really be in bike lanes. Guess it's an area where law needs to keep up, to stop these things fitting in the gaps.

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

It's obviously better on all fronts than a car: more effective engine, less dead weight, less wear on streets etc.

If these things fit poorly on traffic categories, or are less tolerable than a car (for whatever reason), the problem is one of categories, not of the cargo-whatevers.

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

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Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

Australia's got road trains, I wonder how long you could make it before it's impossible to move.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

In my city there is a main three lane road through the city center. They are considering making it two lanes and using the extra space for bike lanes. But one reason it hasn’t happened is that there needs to be a solution for making deliveries downtown. Right now the semis will park in a lane of traffic and cars go around.

So to ask a different question: if sharing the bike lane with deliveries enabled having bike lanes at all, would you take the bike lanes?

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

I would have no issue seeing it on bike lanes like that: youtu.be/QBViPM8OGFY?si=9BUYu0…

But of course not on the narrow ones.

I guess just like trucks can't go into every streets, such contraptions should not be allowed to every bike lane. In Poland we even already have a sign for that which prevents cargo bikes from entering said road / cycle path.

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

Suggestion : we now replace every motorway by lanes of its width and build bike lanes on the former motorways.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

Teaching the apes that they are allowed to use the bike lane is doable I guess, and even teaching them to keep their speed below 25 km/h (they're apes, not monkeys, so they use the metric system, not imperial units), but the real challenge is to teach them not to throw feces at whoever disrespect the priority to the right...
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

I’m with @quixoticgeek on this. These things, which we are now seeing all over Manchester UK (branded Zedify and Amazon mostly) are a huge improvement over cars and vans for last mile deliveries. They are part of the solution and we need to make our infra catch up - which would better facilitate all the other kinds of cargo bikes, adapted bikes etc.

Of course if they do stop in the bike lane for a bag of chips they deserve to incur the wrath of other users.

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

was it really? They often had "moped" number plates (insurance plates only), they were not classified as Bikes all right, but not as cars, either. But I don't know for sure, just going by the number plates.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

legislation on this subject is a disaster (for everyone: lawmakers, manufacturers, the public and even advocates.)

But we all are waiting for a miracle.

As -all citizen- make use of it one way or another it should be very simple and clear.
(But law makers want exceptions because of ... (Let them explain and shiver🙈)

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

It may look similar in the photos. As far as I know, however, the Ape is between 1.20m and 1.50m wide, depending on the model. At least in Germany, vehicles wider than 1m are not bicycles and are not allowed to use the bike lane. That's quite a difference.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

New Zealand is absolutely filled with medium-sized motorized vehicles like this cramming the sidewalks. It was solidified by government postal workers, cruising at about 20kph on former footpaths, but as you suggest it's now just general purpose vehicular driving on former footpaths for people who would do that sort of thing. It is not the same as mobility scooters.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

Imo it's hard to regulate when you don't also want to ban any other "more than two wheels" bikes from the bike lane :/
While I tend to go with the street with wider vehicles (legally-a-bike driving sofa :3) if the bike lane isn't really wide, it would be really annoying to ban cargo bikes and the like completely (at least in Vienna there are places that are extremely hard to reach if you don't want to go over a four lane bridge and can't take the bike line). 1/2
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

but the article itself is about cities trying out curb spaces specifically for short delivery with automatic micro payments so bikes, cars, and everything in-between aren't blocking flow lanes.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

The opportunity here is that if light delivery vehicles become numerous they create pressure to have more street infrastructure, which means more and wider cycle lanes.
@jwildeboer
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

seems like weight limits on what is a "bicycle" and allowed in the bike lane would be helpful here...
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

Is it going to be a problem? Possibly. If so, is the solution to ban it? Or to build more and wider bike lanes?
I might change my mind when I see it, but having thought about this overnight, my current reaction is that having more of these and fewer cars sounds like a win.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

Saw one of those operated by #HerpesPaketversand a few weeks ago near Südkreuz in #Berlin. I would also like to add that I am not at all supportive of quadrupled kinetic energy in propulsion assisted objects on bike lanes that would move at half the speed otherwise, in case you catch my drift.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

look real easy to tip over.
For safety of course, a unit could be put back into the car lanes by a single passing bike rider for temporary storage by tipping it right onto the adjacent car lane if found "disabled" in the bike lane. Pretty nice feature, smart! :B
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

Yes but .. the problem is the insufficient infrastructure. In Hamburg, things Come out better with these vehicles than with normal lorries. Btw. out tandem-trike is as big as this vehicle - with trailer it‘s even longer.
Why do people look so angry at electric and/or human powered vehicles, as long as they are not „normal“ bikes?
Als Antwort auf Schrecke

@Schrecke I think because this is being intentionally designed and marketed to use the limited active-transport infrastructure and so reduce capacity for other users, for only the benefit of the company behind it. This doesn’t _need_ to use a cycle lane, it would be perfectly safe in a normal road. It’s cynical, I think.

(And yes, it would all be better if there was more and better cycling infrastructure — but there isn’t, and this company is doing nothing to solve that, just taking from what is there already.)

Als Antwort auf ben

@benjamineskola Was out with normal bike and trailer today for collecting placards. Took almost an hour. Zero conflicts with others on road or pavement or … Colleague needed 2 hours last year by car, with 2 persons working. They had conflicts with cars, pedestrians, bikers. Same locations, same timeframe.
It is all about taking a car for work or something smaller and smarter.

@jwildeboer

Als Antwort auf Schrecke

@Schrecke I don’t think the complaint is about normal bikes with trailers; the problem is about companies stretching the definition of “bike” in order to be allowed to use the bike lane, for their own gain.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

Amsterdam cyclist here,.. tl/dr; maybe.

It's not just these, there are lots of different boxy, too fast, electric-pedal hybrids causing problems on the bike paths.

Things are building to a head, it's chaos on suburban bike paths right now and the pedestrians and pedal cyclists (eg me) are being bullied by the new 'kings of the road' just like we were by the old ones.. It's like a repeat of the 70's situation that birthed bike movement, hopefully we can reclaim the bicycle paths for bicycles.

Oh, and dont get me started about the Microcars (wider, heavier and faster), I want every one of them found on a bike path confiscated and recycled. At the drivers expense.

Edited for typos and comprehensibility

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Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

I have the feeling "bike" is somehow overused today. I see more and more problems with so many types of bikes for our normal german bike lanes. Even driving with a good old "bio" bike feels dangerous sometimes. And I am not talking about cars as problem. Thats a different story.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

@cmthiede

But I am in favor of smaller courier vehicles however they exist. Cities were not really built for semis pulling 53 foot trailers. That used to be rails job. I would welcome legislation that prohibited trucks longer than 25 feet without permit. Make fleets smaller more numerous more drivers.

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

Well I think it's still positive, even if counting these as cars is cringe. I mean the alternative is packages continue to be delivered by big vans on roads, and people keep saying car-part of road is critical infrastructure.

The more busy and Crowded bike paths are, the easier it is to convince people to make bike paths wider. Or the logical next step, dutch-style bicycle streets 😊

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

I think technically I would not object to these on principle. The DHL recumbent ones are nice. But the key difference there is visibility and assisted driving - this tall setup blocks any visibility and look like plain electric vehicles with a poor excuse for pedaling (i.e. it is not a bike). Contrary to the DHL one, no way you drive this back to a lot if the electrics go out.

velove.se/news/city-containers…

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

that’s some straight up bullshit. We can’t have anything nice without corporations trying to take it over.
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CM Thiede
@Chancerubbage right, bring back effective tools from history, but don't implement them in a loophole exploiting, capitalistic manner. It gives off extremely bad vibes.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

if it blocks the lane, it looks small and light enough to be pushed/lifted into the road where it can be left. An action I fully endorse
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

I see this as a provocation too. This is a car using a bike lane to avoid traffic – the same entitled mentality as people who choose the quiet carriage of the train because they want the peace for themselves, but feel entitled to talk on their own phone when they want.

For quicker delivery of heavier and bulkier items using bike lanes, I prefer to see something like these.

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

Up next: UPS lobbies to make bike lanes wider so their normal vans can fit there.
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Wilfried Klaebe

In the Netherlands, bike lanes often are wide enough (and tough enough) to allow ambulances. I think that is a very good idea. Also, it would help here - iff delivery guys took their vehicles out of the way of ambulances in time.

@quixoticgeek

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

Similar issue with those cars like Aixam that only require license for a moped, but technically occupies the same space as other cars and also participates on road with other cars. How is that allowed? You're just driving a shit slow car that's still fast enough to hurt pedestrians just the same as well as crash into things like any other car.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

If you look at the silver lining, though... as large corporations start to take advantage of bike lanes, it may increase demand for safe bike lanes.

Imagine if the lobbying power of Amazon put it's weight behind safe biking infrastructure. US cities would rapidly start looking more like Amsterdam and less like a car-filled game of Frogger

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Quixoticgeek
@jeremiah_ then make the cycle path bigger. I've ridden tens of thousands of km in the Netherlands. I've visited every Gemente by bike. I've experienced pretty much every type of bike infrastructure the Netherlands has to offer. And I can safely say. Making the fietspadden wider, will improve life for everyone.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

The protection of cyclists is more important than the striving for profit by delivery drivers and suppliers. The only reason to allow such vehicles to use the cycle path is to preserve an extra lane for commerce. This is absolutely wrong!
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Mathaetaes

Yes, this is true. But lobbying ensures your tax dollars are going to go towards "free" infrastructure either way.

At least this way, some of that might be for safe biking.

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

it's 250w of electric motor assist. I doubt it's going to trouble the 25km/h assist speed limit. It's technically a big cargo bike. I'd much prefer deliveries by these than a 3 ton diesel truck. Especially if it increased the justification of more bike lanes.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

If, on the other hand, we'd force it on the road, then 2 of these could use one lane in parallel. This would turn regular streets into 2 lane motorways, and 2 lane streets into 4 lane highways. Consider the wins if this was the new required form factor for cars in cities.
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Riku Voipio

they did expand the standard minimum width of one-way bicycle lane from 1.5m to 2m recently so a cargo bike can pass another.

The picture above is from USA, where clearly no such minimum is observed.

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Dave Mc

surely the energy footprint is going to be a hell of a lot lower, even compared to an electric truck.

What about these?
urbantricycles.co.uk/cargo-tri…

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

my opinion is that any vehicle that doesn't get its motive power primarily from human muscles doesn't belong in a bike lane
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

You're gonna hate me....

I have to slow down and have 100% of my visibility blocked in a normal traffic lane by UPS vans, city busses, school busses, delivery trucks, etc.... And it drives me insane! All while there's an empty bike lane next to me.

HOWEVER.....

Why is it any different when they block YOUR lane??? Seriously!!! Motorists have to be patient and deal with this exact same annoyance, in the public's interest.

Why shouldn't you?

I support cycling and strongly believe in affording anybody in smaller less visible vehicles than my own, extra caution.

Every package in that UPS represents someone who stayed off the roads, out of their car, and ordered their stuff online. They're contributing heavily to getting cars off roads and cleaner air.

Be patient. Maybe it will turn at the next signal.

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

We have them here in germany and they just park on the road-part, not on the bicycle lane.

I see it as a real good thing to fix traffic jams. (when parking on the road part)

If you want to fix this delivery-object problem you should aim at the 'demand' part, which is people ordering from them, not the 'deliver' part.

p.s. I'm far from a supporter for delivery corporations and never use them for obvious reasons, but I think this is progress.

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trusty falxter 🧠

@cczona But wouldn't there be much more traffic on the bike lanes if everyone rides individually to the pickup point for their package?

At my local pickup store (Post/DHL), you also wait at least 10mins to get your package (20mins at peak times). So at any time there are about 10 people or more at the store who need to park their bike around that place.

My thought now is: These ten people occupying 2m plus safety margin of a bike lane while riding, and 0.8 by 2 square meters parking space on the sidewalk around the pickup place while waiting to check out, could be one person with a cargo bike, occupying 3m of a bike lane plus safety margin while riding, and 0.9 by 3 square meters parking space (roadway, sidewalk, loading zone, parking lot) while delivering. Am I wrong?

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Galbinus Caeli
wheelchairs, either manual or electric, are "pedestrians" and belong on the sidewalk (pavement). They operate at pedestrian speeds of 10-15kph(at most). Casual riders bike at 20-30kph. They don't belong in the same space.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

Isn’t the key definition of a bike is that it’s mode of transportation that is moved by the rider using their feet on pedals. Then that can be used with electric support and different number of wheels.

But yes, that is indeed a very narrow car.

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

They are using the road infrastructure here in Germany. Also the electric engine makes no co2.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

for sure doesn’t belong on bike lanes, but seems great for car lanes. Slow other cars down and cleaner than big delivery vans
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trusty falxter 🧠
@cczona When I used it last time I had to wait for other people to check out at the central terminal of the Packstation. After check out at the terminal a locker opened. Due to other waiting people at least I was not alone alongside the strange folks loitering at that place. Neither the Packetstation nor the Pickup store are near my usual ways.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

I'm confused. You are talking about bike lanes in the US but using the metric system to describe weight. 🤔
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

After your edits, that point out, that the thing could weigh up to 425kg (with or without the rider?), I tend to agree, that it probably should not be on the bike lane. At least not in the city.
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Tony Hoyle
250W motor limits the weight somewhat.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

maybe street / sidewalk design needs to catch up to the addition of these bike delivery things.

If spots were created such that delivery vehicles could pull out of the bike lane and into a cutout in the sidewalk, they'd be closer to business addresses for deliveries and out of the way of bicyclists.

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Quixoticgeek
@samsterby make the bike infrastructure better.
Als Antwort auf Quixoticgeek

@quixoticgeek indeed. Also nobody is forcing them to use the cycling infra, they can and do use the roads where it’s to their advantage (i.e. not rammed with cars) or the bike lanes are too crap… exactly like I do with my longtail.
Als Antwort auf Sam Easterby-Smith

@samsterby nope. In .NL if the fietspad is there it's mandatory. Same in Germany. In Germany a round blue cycle sign indicates a mandatory radweg.
Als Antwort auf Sam Easterby-Smith

@quixoticgeek the problem is that if those of us who advocate for walking & cycling start saying these things are in some way bad, the nuance gets lost and they get blanket banned. Just like e-scooters did in the UK (and it’s now a hell of a pickle trying to get them un-banned).

Better infra. Better infra. Better infra. All day better infra!

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Quixoticgeek
@samsterby just ban cars already. Problem solved.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

the fact he's wearing a helmet in the pic is what really makes this art.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

There are similar vehicles already in the bike lanes in Sweden, certainly plenty of cargo bikes, although they’re certainly smaller than this contraption. Still the so-called “last mile” needs to be decarbonized.
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Sam Easterby-Smith
@quixoticgeek in the uk they are only legal if they are hire-scooters operated under licence from local councils. Private ones are illegal (but people buy and ride them anyway).
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Quixoticgeek
@samsterby if the bike lane isn't >1m wide, that's not a bike lane, that's a murder strip.
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trusty falxter 🧠
Either way, that's a really heavy vehicle. I think it's probably a legal loophole (in Germany) that such heavy-duty bikes are allowed on the bike lane. I don't know where I would draw the line either. My feeling is 250kg total weight (normal cargo bike or very heavy person on a correspondingly dense bike) is still ok, 400kg is no longer. I don't think the dimensions are that bad, we both have different opinions on that. But with the mass, the fun should stop at some point.
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Quixoticgeek
@samsterby Let's make them all >3m wide. Solves the problem.
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Sunny

I meant what I wrote... no creative interpretations needed.

I'm amused by your reaction to the situation, not denying your point. 🙂 I think its valid. If the "powers that be" want to run EV's in the bike lanes, then don't set the expectation that its a bicycle only lane.

And by the way... I love cycling, I support more bike lanes and better development of safe zones around them.

BUT... I'm glad you're the one stuck behind that UPS micro-truck and I'm not! That's what driving in traffic is about. 🤣

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

"But if we classify it as a car & put it on the road it will disrupt traffic!" - my brother in Zeus, it's already disrupting traffic; did you forget that traffic isn't defined as "just the cars" & also includes bikes, pedestrians etc.?

Maybe it's time to disrupt car traffic? Maybe being unwilling to inconvenicence car drivers even a little is a big part of every traffic problem there is...?

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

but car fanatics want to have 4 by 2 meters metal coffin on high suspension and massive v8 engine that consumes 10 liters on oil per km and screams, like their mothers on, khem, ahem, i better not continue this one.

And that's all for a helicopter mother to drive their only kid to school in the morning and then to football club in the afternoon

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

it should exist, but shouldn't be allowed in bike infrastructure. It is a vehicle that when limited to 5kmph should be allowed to make deliveries in pedestrianised areas (and nothing bigger during normal hours)
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

They look like they'd tip over easily. One way to clear the bike lane.

"Let's be clear. This is a car. Four wheels. It weighs 225 kg by itself and you can add up to 200 kg of cargo. That's not an electric bike, as the manufacturer claims it is. This is a small car that occupies and blocks the bike lane. This shouldn't exist. Us cyclists already have to deal with bad infrastructure. I see this as a provocation, not as the positive change it pretends to be."

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

If you find one of these meter-wide non-bicycle delivery vehicles blocking your bike lane you might consider just tipping it over into the adjacent traffic lane, if that is your kind of thing.
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Juho Mäntysalo

I don't disagree about the bike lanes.

What I was trying to say that existence of these chimaeras might let us explore more the speed of car traffic in cities (25kmh is plenty on areas with traffic lights at every juncture, and junctures every 100 metres), and how heavy cars we allow into city centres in the first place.

(Also I feel that cities should have dedicated and ubiquitous parking for short stops for unloading etc.)

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

A few years ago I was stopped at a red light when my cyclist-senses started tingling. A heavy vehicle was rapidly approaching from behind!! I turn around and see a guy riding a 500 lb electric motorbike 10 feet down the bike path and nearly ran me over before swerving and stopping. The light turns green and I tell him "after you, cyclist!" He blasts off from the red light and cuts back into the vehicle lane in front of the waiting vehicles.
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

unfortunately UPS is just responding to conglomerates like Amazon, with major business in infrastructure (AWS) and now more and more last mile prime delivery and services I'm sure UPS is trying to find as many delivery options as they can to make things as cheap and efficient.
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Jakob (Jack/Jackie)
There are two and three person bikes that probably weigh more than that with three people on them. Banning commercial use entails issues with extremely time sensitive things like blood samples destined for a lab. That's what I meant with hard to regulate. Any further regulation will have casualties the people writing the regulations didn't think about :/
(And just to state that clearly: I'd hate to see UPS trucks on the bike lane)
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Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

absolutely this. Its the 'one quick hack' to get around all the congestion problems. "Look at all these open empty cycle lanes... we can fill those with cars too"
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

Looks like it would be awfully hard to get back upright if it were to somehow tip over...
Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

They are a very good idea when they replace a large van.
But...
They are too wide to pass each other on a lot of the painted cycle lanes in the UK.
and
are too big/fast to share space with pedestrians.

I tend to think they should be on the road but able to travel at the urban speed limit (20mph/35?kph) or (30mph/ 50kph) depending on local regulations.

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Schrecke
What sort of vehicles cause death and serious injurien? Bikes, big bikes? Definition not.
The elephant in the room looks like justifying car use by discrediting unusual bike-like vehicles.
@benjamineskola
@ben
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ben
@Schrecke They also seem disproportionately dangerous to actual bike users because they are large, heavy, and fast (I could imagine I'd feel a little intimidated by sharing space with one, and someone smaller/less confident than me more so), and also because these things stopping in cycle lanes will force actual cyclists out of the bike lanes to share with motor vehicles, which is more dangerous.
Als Antwort auf Schrecke

@Schrecke Nobody here is advocating car use. The problem (which has been stated several times) is things that are not bikes being cynically classified as bikes to permit them to use bike infrastructure, for the benefit of corporations.

I think this only harms actual bike users by taking up infrastructure that is (in most cases that I know of) already insufficient.

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hicksy2
@benjamineskola @Schrecke has anyone mentioned the fourth power law here? Damage that vehicles do to paved surfaces is proportional to the fourth power of axle load. That has two axles like a bike. But each axle, when fully loaded is over four times weight of a bike and rider. 4*4*4*4=128 times as much damage to the bike lane as a standard pedal cycle. Still doing about 1/64th the damage of a van to the road though.
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Greengordon
I don't see corporate property damage as violence when necessary, and we're running out of options to get a responsive government. But we may agree to disagree. 😀
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Peter Brown
@Anikke oh well here we have bicycle anarchy. They use the cycle lane the vehicle lane and the footway quite freely.
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streetcoder

Follow up, seems to be 12 m max length. So #carryshitolympics with canoes should be fine.

Abmessungen (§ 32 StVZO Absatz 1–4)
Breite allgemein: 2,55 m
Höhe: 4 m
Länge allgemein: 12 m
Fahrrad und Anhänger zusammen: 18,75 m

Die Höchstanzahl von Anhängern hinter Fahrrädern ist nicht festgelegt. Das bedeutet, dass ein Fahrrad auch zwei oder mehrere Anhänger ziehen darf, sofern die zulässige Zuglänge von 18,75 m nicht überschritten wird.

de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrrada…

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

Sensitiver Inhalt

Als Antwort auf Jan Wildeboer 😷

If an average-strengthed person can't lift it, it probably shouldn't be allowed to be legally considered a bicycle. Similarly, e-bikes should have a requirement of needing at least half the energy used to come from the person pedalling, at least over some predefined speed, maybe 15 or 20 mph.