Friend-ly enby-box

SunDancerGE via Warmonger

2 Tage her • •

SunDancerGE
2 Tage her • •

Gestern (Dienstag 15.04.2025) hat Atomic Mass Games (AMG) einen knapp 45 minütigen Livestream zum Thema Star Wars: Legion (SWL) abgehalten.

In diesem Stream haben die drei Herren versucht zu erklären was sich ändert wird, warum sich manches ändert und was noch zu erwarten ist. Wer bisher das Geschehen um SWL verfolgt hat wird wenig überrascht sein von den Dingen, die dort gesagt […]

warmonger.de/star-wars-legion-…

STAR WARS: Legion Developer Update April 2025 | Warmonger

^{www.warmonger.de}

#starwars #legion #DeveloperUpdate

BlueMonday1984 via TechTakes

4 Tage her (Empfangen 2 Tage her) • •

BlueMonday1984
4 Tage her (Empfangen 2 Tage her) • •

Stubsack: weekly thread for sneers not worth an entire post, week ending 20th April 2025

Need to let loose a primal scream without collecting footnotes first? Have a sneer percolating in your system but not enough time/energy to make a whole post about it? Go forth and be mid: Welcome to the Stubsack, your first port of call for learning fresh Awful you’ll near-instantly regret.

Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.

If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cut’n’paste it into its own post — there’s no quota for posting and the bar really isn’t that high.

The post Xitter web has spawned soo many “esoteric” right wing freaks, but there’s no appropriate sneer-space for them. I’m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged “culture critics” who write about everything but understand nothing. I’m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. They’re inescapable at this point, yet I don’t see them mocked (as much as they should be)
Like, there was one dude a whil

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Als Antwort auf BlueMonday1984

gerikson

Als Antwort auf BlueMonday1984 • 3 Tage her (Empfangen 2 Tage her) • •

LessWronger puts in the work and determines that LLMs can't spacially vizualize for shit, comments are like "well you're prompting it wrong" (paraphrased) as well as "why not pay experiences machinists to videotape what they're doing os their work can be automated"

lesswrong.com/posts/r3NeiHAEWy…

The article itself is worth reading for some insights in the challenges of using current "AI" (LLMs) to work in the real world.

Frontier AI Models Still Fail at Basic Physical Tasks: A Manufacturing Case Study

Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic, recently worried about a world where only 30% of jobs become automated, leading to class tensions between the automat…

^{Adam Karvonen (www.lesswrong.com)}

Als Antwort auf gerikson

fullsquare

Als Antwort auf gerikson • 3 Tage her (Empfangen 2 Tage her) • •

“why not pay experiences machinists to videotape what they’re doing os their work can be automated”

none of these people had a job in manufacturing, or even possibly any real job, it's called CNC and there are way better tools for making it work than stochastic parrot

e: ok at least op is a machinist

Interestingly, many of these models also score at or above the level of some human experts on visual reasoning benchmarks like MMMU. That which is easy to measure often doesn't correlate with real world usefulness.

benchmarks could be perhaps possibly fucked with? say it aint so!

My high level impression when reading the response is “someone who can parrot textbook knowledge but doesn’t know what they’re talking about”.

with corpus consisting of toy problems only, and with solutions that depending on field can kill whoever uses these

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Als Antwort auf fullsquare

gerikson

Als Antwort auf fullsquare • 2 Tage her • •

The fact this commenter doesn't mention the absolute fuckton of machining videos on Youtube tells me they're just talking out of their ass.

(not that forcing those into LLM slop would help but a hypothetical AGI would learn a lot)

Also

Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic, recently worried about a world where only 30% of jobs become automated, leading to class tensions between the automated and non-automated. Instead, he predicts that nearly all jobs will be automated simultaneously, putting everyone "in the same boat."

Dario is delusional. We don't even have self driving cars outside of a very small, very expensive demo in SF

Als Antwort auf gerikson

Charlie Stross

Als Antwort auf gerikson • 2 Tage her • •

I'd like to see him automating bed-turning a frail 90 year old in a nursing home so she doesn't get bed sores (ulcers—open wounds from lying on a creased sheet or just in the same position for too long). A 90yo with cognitive impairment who's scared of robots.

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

Jon PENNYCOOK

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross • 2 Tage her • •

This doesn't sound promising: "A growing body of evidence is finding that robots tend to end up creating more work for caregivers"

technologyreview.com/2023/01/0…

Inside Japan’s long experiment in automating elder care

The country wanted robots to help care for the elderly. What happened?

^{James Wright (MIT Technology Review)}

snuggledick via Buy European

3 Tage her • •

snuggledick
3 Tage her • •

German grocery store chain Lidl evolving into tech company that could eventually replace Amazon AWS (video in German)

Quick and incomplete summary: In recent years Lidl invested heavily in cyber security and cloud computing, first for their own independent infrastructure, but they're already selling their security and cloud services to other big companies. The video makes the point that eventually they could become a proper competition for Amazon AWS and other services.

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

^{www.youtube.com}

#buyeuropean

Als Antwort auf snuggledick

reboot6675

Als Antwort auf snuggledick • 3 Tage her • •

"Buying storage and compute services from Lidl" is a wild sentence I never thought I'd say haha

scruiser via SneerClub

4 Tage her (Empfangen 3 Tage her) • •

scruiser
4 Tage her (Empfangen 3 Tage her) • •

Is Scott and others like him at fault for Trump... no it's the "elitist's" fault!

I am still subscribed to slatestarcodex on reddit, and this piece of garbage popped up on my feed. I didn't actually read the whole thing, but basically the author correctly realizes Trump is ruining everything in the process of getting at "DEI" and "wokism", but instead of accepting the blame that rightfully falls on Scott Alexander and the author, deflects and blames the "left" elitists. (I put left in quote marks because the author apparently thinks establishment democrats are actually leftist, I fucking wish).

An illustrative quote (of Scott's that the author agrees with)

We wanted to be able to hold a job without reciting DEI shibboleths or filling in multiple-choice exams about how white people cause earthquakes. Instead we got a thousand scientific studies cancelled because they used the string “trans-” in a sentence on transmembrane proteins.

I don't really follow their subsequent points, they fail to clarify what they mean... In sofar as "left elites" actually refers to centrist democrats, I actually think the establ

The edgelords were right: a response to Scott Alexander

We should aim for better elites

^{Ruxandra Teslo (Ruxandra's Substack)}

Als Antwort auf scruiser

maol

Als Antwort auf scruiser • 3 Tage her • •

We wanted to be able to hold a job without reciting DEI shibboleths or filling in multiple-choice exams about how white people cause earthquakes. Instead we got a thousand scientific studies cancelled because they used the string “trans-” in a sentence on transmembrane proteins.

If you were too racist to see the wood for the trees, that's your problem comrade!
Well, actually it's everyone's problem now.

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (3 Tage her)

Als Antwort auf maol

Soyweiser

Als Antwort auf maol • 3 Tage her • •

The first part of that sentence is such a great example of what is wrong with Slatestarcodex style rationalism. It instantly fails the "Victorian Sufi Buddha Lite” comment policy (it is neither kind, charitable, nor backed up by evidence, also it is culture war). But that is only if think SSC is grey tribe, and these rules are rules. It is more rules in the way of how conservatism has rules. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” (quote is by a Frank Wilhoit, just not the one people attribute it too). (I know it isn't directly posted in the ssc comments, but isn't that a nice way to get around the comment policy).

The Pithiest Critique of Modern Conservatism Keeps Getting Credited to the Wrong Man

“Wilhoit’s Law” was coined by a different Frank Wilhoit.

^{Henry Grabar (Slate)}

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (3 Tage her)

amos via Solarpunk

3 Tage her • •

amos
3 Tage her • •

Friends pool money to build ecovillage in self-owned factory coop

I don't know if this is the right community to post this video, but the community they are (building) seems very solarpunk to me!

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

^{www.youtube.com}

#solarpunk

mögen das

Als Antwort auf amos

wuzzlewoggle

Als Antwort auf amos • 3 Tage her • •

This is probably the most Solarpunk thing I've ever seen. Really cool!

Als Antwort auf amos

Sips'

Als Antwort auf amos • 3 Tage her • •

Definetly subbing to that channel, seems like there is loads og catch up on!

Glitch via Jewish Autonomous Queers

4 Tage her • •

Glitch
4 Tage her • •

Seder!

One of our London members is organising a potluck seder on Tuesday. Short on notice but long on community!

If you haven’t been before to anything we’ve run, this would be a fun first event.

Bring a small vegan dish to share, and find fellowship and Matzo with queer and leftist Jews.

We do not have the ability to reheat food (there is a tea kettle however). Please note that we will use grape juice only at this event.

Late arrival is ok. We ask that everyone follow our code of conduct.

If you have not been before, please book.

(All of our events are listed in our Calendar, which you can sync to your phone or device.)

ShareOpenly logo Share this post on social media.

#Jewish #London #Queer #seder

A seder plate with a Bundist flag, a trans flag and a rainbow flag.

Queer Weekday Minyan

Weekday Shacharit service for queer Jews and allies.

^Eventbrite

#queer #london #jewish #seder

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (4 Tage her)

subarctictundra via Solarpunk

1 Woche her • •

subarctictundra
1 Woche her • •

Is anyone developing anti-generative AI proof?

I'm finding it harder and harder to tell whether an image has been generated or not (the main giveaways are disappearing). This is probably going to become a big problem in like half a year's time. Does anyone know of any proof of legitimacy projects that are gaining traction? I can imagine news orgs being the first to be hit by this problem. Are they working on anything?

#solarpunk

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

subarctictundra

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 1 Woche her • •

Perhaps a trusted certificate system (similar to https) might work for proving legitimacy?

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

knightly the Sneptaur

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 1 Woche her • •

Certificates like that can only guarantee that the work was published by someone who is the person they claim to be, it can't verify how that content came to be in their possession.

Als Antwort auf knightly the Sneptaur

subarctictundra

Als Antwort auf knightly the Sneptaur • 6 Tage her • •

Hmm, I see. Surely wouldn't that be enough if they proclaimed they would only sign real photographs though?

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

knightly the Sneptaur

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 6 Tage her • •

Anyone can make such a promise. Verifying that they have followed through with it is not a technical challenge, it's a socioeconomic issue.

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

qaz

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 1 Woche her • •

Camera companies have been working on this. They have been trying to create a system that makes it possible to detect if an image has been tampered with lifewire.com/camera-makers-aut…

However this signature probably just uses assymetric encryption which could mean that the signing key on the device could be extracted and abused.

New Tech From Camera Makers Tries to Prove Photos Are Not AI Fakes

Camera manufacturers like Sony, Canon, and Nikon are creating ways to verify photos are real, and not generated by AI, which is essential to maintain trust in the images you see.

^Lifewire

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Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

jaredj

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 1 Woche her • •

contentauthenticity.org/how-it…

The page is very light on technical detail, but I think this is a system like trusted platform modules (TPMs), where there is a hardware root of trust in the camera holding the private key of an attestation certificate signed by the manufacturer at the time of manufacture, and it signs the pictures it takes. The consortium is eager for people to take this up ("open-source software!") and support showing and appending to provenance data in their software. The more people do so, the more valuable the special content-authenticating cameras become.

But TPMs on PCs have not been without vulnerabilities. I seem to recall that some manufacturers used a default or example private key for their CA certificates, or something. Vulnerabilities in the firmware of a content-authenticating camera could be used to jailbreak it and make it sign arbitrary pictures. And, unless the CAI is so completely successful that every cell phone authenticates i

contentauthenticity.org/how-it…

And the entire scheme of trusted computing relies on wresting ultimate control of a computing device from its owner. That's how other parties can trust the device without trusting the user. It can be guaranteed that there are things the device will not do, even if the user wants it to. This extends the dominance of existing power structures down into the every-day use of the device. What is not permitted, the device will make impossible. And governments may compel the manufacturer to do one thing or another. See "The coming war on general computation," Cory Doctorow, 28c3.

What if your camera refused to take any pictures as long as it's located in Gaza? Or what if spies inserted code into a compulsory firmware update that would cause a camera with a certain serial number to recognize certain faces and edit those people out of pictures that it takes, before it signs them as being super-authentic?

How it works - Content Authenticity Initiative

Learn how the C2PA Content Credentials standard works for images, audio, video, and more.

^{contentauthenticity.org}

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

over_clox

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 1 Woche her • •

The final output image is just a grid of pixels, just like any other image. Assuming the image has no metadata or has been stripped of metadata, how do you really tell the difference in the first place?

Sure, you can look for JPEG artifacts and chromatic noise and all, but it's pretty easy to overlay that on top of an AI generated image to make it appear more legitimate at a passing glance.

I really don't know a good answer to your question right now, but I'm definitely interested in whatever useful answers others might offer...

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

knightly the Sneptaur

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 1 Woche her • •

Does anyone know of any proof of legitimacy projects that are gaining traction? I can imagine news orgs being the first to be hit by this problem. Are they working on anything?

In short, no. There's no solution to this crisis of legitimacy and no way to validate that a work came from human hands that can't be counterfeited. Short of a Butlerian Jihad, it won't be going away either. I'm looking forward to the inevitable bubble pop that will kill the overinvestment in generative tech but the models will still be around even without big companies wasting billions to train new ones.

In short, it's long past time to start treating every day like April Fools Day.

Als Antwort auf knightly the Sneptaur

Sunoc

Als Antwort auf knightly the Sneptaur • 1 Woche her • •

Butlerian Jihad it is then!

mögen das

Als Antwort auf knightly the Sneptaur

HappyFrog

Als Antwort auf knightly the Sneptaur • 6 Tage her • •

Time lapses of drawing the image would be near impossible to replicate currently.

Als Antwort auf HappyFrog

knightly the Sneptaur

Als Antwort auf HappyFrog • 6 Tage her • •

Only a matter of time and they're already good enough to fool the gullible.

Als Antwort auf knightly the Sneptaur

anomnom

Als Antwort auf knightly the Sneptaur • 6 Tage her • •

My understanding is that the generator would have to make each frame from scratch and also keep track of the progress of the drawing.

They may have trained on a few Timelapse drawings, but that dataset is much smaller then the photographs and artworks in the models.

I’m sure it could happen, but I’m not sure there will be enough demand to bother.

Universal Basic Income is really the only answer. So we can make art for fun instead of as a means to survive.

Als Antwort auf anomnom

knightly the Sneptaur

Als Antwort auf anomnom • 6 Tage her • •

The problem is Goodhart's Law; "Every measure which becomes a target becomes a bad measure". Implementing a verification system that depends on video evidence creates both an incentive to forge such videos and a set of labeled training data that grows more readily available as the system sees more use. The adversarial generative network is literally designed to evolve better scams in response to a similarly-evolving scam detector, there's no computational way around the need to have people involved to make sure things are what they're claimed to be.

Universal Basic Income would be a good start, but the fundamental problem is money as the primary organizing force of society.

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Als Antwort auf knightly the Sneptaur

Tiresia

Als Antwort auf knightly the Sneptaur • 6 Tage her • •

There is no proof that the food you're eating isn't filled with toxic chemicals either, but we do have infrastructure that makes it a lot less extreme. Organizations like the Food and Drug Administration regulate food producers, demanding that they take legal responsibility for the food not being toxic, investigating claims of violation, and occasionally doing inspections or research to find violations proactively.

Or as a more decentralized version, there are a lot of organizations that investigate other qualities of products, such as being made without slave labor or being produced through organic farming practices.

One could imagine a nonprofit that gives media a certification of being AI-free and that researches those media to ensure their certification process is legitimate. The nonprofit could pick random published images and demand proof of work.

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

BakedCatboy

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 1 Woche her • •

I didn't think this is really feasible.

I've heard of efforts (edit: this is the one c2pa.org/ - I haven't read it at all so I don't know if it overlaps with my ideas below at all) to come up with a system that digitally signs images when they are taken using a tamper resistant TPM or secure enclave built into cameras, but that doesn't even begin to address the pile of potential attack vectors and challenges.

For example, if only cameras can sign images, and the signature is only valid for that exact image, then editing the image in any way makes the signature invalid. So then you'd probably need image editors to be able to make signatures or re-sign the edit, assuming it's minor (crop, color correct) but you'd need a way to prevent rogue/hacked image editors from being able to re-sign an edit that adds AI elements. So unless you want image editors to require you to have a TPM that can verify your edit is minor / not adding AI, then the image editor would be able to forge a signature on an AI edi

I didn't think this is really feasible.

Assuming you require every image editor to run on a device with a TPM in order to re-sign edits, there's also the problem of how you decide which edits are ok and which are too much. You probably can't allow compositing with external images unless they are also signed, because you could just add an AI image into an originally genuine image. You also probably couldn't stop someone from using macros to paint every pixel of an AI image on top of a genuine image using the pencil tool at 1px brush size, so you would need some kind of heuristic running inside the TPM or TEE that can check how much the image changed - and you'd have to prevent someone from also doing this piecewise (like only 1/10 of overlaying an AI image at a time so that the heuristic won't reject the edit), so you might need to keep the full original image embedded in the signed package so the final can be checked against the original to see if it was edited too much

You might be able to solve some of the editing vulnerabilities by only allowing a limited set of editing operations (like maybe only crop/rotate or curves), if you did that then you could not require a TPM to edit if the editing software doesn't actually create a new signature but just saves the edits as a list of changes along side the original signed image. Maybe a system like this where you can only crop/rotate and color correct images would work for stock photos or news, but that would be super limiting for everyone else so I can't see it really taking off.

And if that's not enough, I'm sure if this system was made then someone would just mitm the camera sensor and inject fake data, so you'd need to parts pair all camera sensors to the TPM, iPhone home button style (iiuc this exact kind of data injection attack is the justification for the iPhone home button fingerprint scanner parts pairing).

Oh, and how do you stop someone from using such a camera to take a picture of a screen that has an AI image on it?

Overview - C2PA

An open technical standard providing publishers, creators, and consumers the ability to trace the origin of different types of media.

^c2pa.org

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Als Antwort auf BakedCatboy

Daniel Quinn

Als Antwort auf BakedCatboy • 1 Woche her • •

Much of these problems can be solved by introducing a signature chain:

Company A created the image
Company B resized it

In this example, "Company A" can be a reliable news source, and "Company B" could be an aggregator like Mastodon or Facebook. So long as the chain is intact, the viewer can decide whether they trust every element in the chain and therefore trust the image.

This even allows people to use AI for responsible editing, because you're attacking the real problem: the connection between the creator (in whom you may or may not vest a certain amount of trust) and the media you're looking at.

Als Antwort auf Daniel Quinn

Korhaka

Als Antwort auf Daniel Quinn • 6 Tage her • •

This relies on everyone maintaining the chain though which there is nothing to force them into doing so.

Als Antwort auf Korhaka

Daniel Quinn

Als Antwort auf Korhaka • 6 Tage her • •

Absolutely, but that's not really the point. If you remove the chain, then the file becomes untrusted. We're talking about attaching trust to an image, and a signature chain is how you ensure that that trust.

Als Antwort auf Daniel Quinn

Korhaka

Als Antwort auf Daniel Quinn • 6 Tage her • •

Couldn't you just start a new chain though from any point?

Als Antwort auf Korhaka

Daniel Quinn

Als Antwort auf Korhaka • 6 Tage her • •

Yes, but starting a new chain would necessarily reallocate the ownership. So if reuters.com created a real image and then Alex Jones modified it, stripped the headers, and then re-created them, then the image would no longer appear to be from Reuters, but rather from infowars.com.

Als Antwort auf Daniel Quinn

BakedCatboy

Als Antwort auf Daniel Quinn • 6 Tage her • •

I think you might be assuming that most of the problems I listed are about handling the trust of the software that made each modification - in case you just read the first part of my comment. And I'm not sure if changing the signature to a chain really addresses any of them besides having a bigger "hit list" of companies to scrutinize.

For reference, the issues I listed included:

Trusted image editors adding or replacing a signature cannot do so securely without a TPM - without it someone can memory edit the image buffer without the program knowing and have a "crop" edit signed by Adobe which replaces the image with an AI one
Needs a system to grade the "types" of edits in a foolproof way - so that you can't bypass having the image marked as "user imported an external image" by painting the imported images pixels over the original using an automated tool for example
Need to prevent MITM of camera sensor data that can make the entire system moot
You cannot prevent someone from taking a picture of a screen with Ai image

There are

For reference, the issues I listed included:

Trusted image editors adding or replacing a signature cannot do so securely without a TPM - without it someone can memory edit the image buffer without the program knowing and have a "crop" edit signed by Adobe which replaces the image with an AI one
Needs a system to grade the "types" of edits in a foolproof way - so that you can't bypass having the image marked as "user imported an external image" by painting the imported images pixels over the original using an automated tool for example
Need to prevent MITM of camera sensor data that can make the entire system moot
You cannot prevent someone from taking a picture of a screen with Ai image

There are plenty of issues with how even a trusted piece of software allows you to edit the picture, since trusted software would need to be able to distinguish between a benign edit and one adding AI. I don't think a signature chain changes much since the chain just increases the number of involved parties that need to be vetted without changing any of the characteristics of what you are allowed to do.

I think the main problem with the signature chain is that is that the chain by itself doesn't allow you to attribute and particular part to and party in the chain. You will be able to see all the responsible parties but not have any way of telling which company in the chain could be responsible for signing a modification. If the chain contains Canon, gimp, and Adobe, there is no way to tell if the AI added to the image was because the canon camera was hacked or if gimp or Adobe has a workaround that allowed someone to replace the image with an AI one. I think in the case of a malicious edit, it makes less sense to allow the picture to retain the canon signature if the entire image could be changed by Adobe, essentially putting Canon's signature reputation on the line for stuff they might not be responsible for.

This would also bring a similar problem to the one I mentioned where there would need to be a level of trust for each piece of editing software - and you might have a world where gimp is out because nobody trusts it, so you can say goodbye to using any smaller developers image editor if you want your image to stay verified. That could be a nightmare if providers such as Facebook or others wanted to use the signature chain to prevent untrusted uploads, it would penalize using anything but Adobe products for example.

In short I don't think a chain changes much besides increasing the number of parties you have to evaluate complicating validation, without helping you attribute malicious edit to any party. And now you have a situation where gimp for example might be blamed for being in the chain when the vulnerability was from Adobe or Canon. My understanding of the question is that the goal is an automatic final determination of authenticity, which I think is infeasible. The chain you've proposed sounds closer to a "web of trust" style system where every user needs to create their own trust criteria and decide for themselves what to trust, which I think defeats the purpose of preventing gullible people from falling for AI images.

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Als Antwort auf BakedCatboy

Daniel Quinn

Als Antwort auf BakedCatboy • 6 Tage her • •

I think you're misunderstanding the purpose behind projects like c2pa. They're not trying to guarantee that the image isn't AI. They're attaching the reputation of the author(s) to the image. If you don't trust the author, then you can't trust the image.

You're right that a chain isn't fool-proof. For example, imagine if we were to attach some metadata to each link in the chain, it might look something like this:

Author	Type
Alice the Photographer	Created
AP photo editing department	Cropping
Facebook	Resizing/optimisation

At any point in the chain, someone could change the image entirely, claim "cropping" and be done with it, but what's important is the chain of custody from source to your eyeballs. If you don't trust the AP photo editing department to act responsibly, then your trust in the image they've shared with you is already tainted.

Consider your own reaction to a chain that looks like this for example:

Author	Type

You're right that a chain isn't fool-proof. For example, imagine if we were to attach some metadata to each link in the chain, it might look something like this:

Author	Type
Alice the Photographer	Created
AP photo editing department	Cropping
Facebook	Resizing/optimisation

Consider your own reaction to a chain that looks like this for example:

Author	Type
Alice the Photographer	Created
AP photo editing department	Cropping
Infowars	Cropping
Facebook	Resizing/optimisation

It doesn't matter if you trust Alice, AP, and Facebook. The fact that Infowars is in the mix means you've lost trust in the image.

Addressing your points directly:

I'm not sure how a TPM applies to this as I haven't dug deep into c2pa other than the quick review I did this morning. I'm more interested in the high-level: "can we solve this by guaranteeing the origin" question, and I think the answer to that is yes. See my other comment for my own take on this.
I don't think we need any sort of controls on defining the types of edits at all. If AP said they cropped the image, and if I trust AP, then I trust them as a link in the chain.
Worrying about MITM attacks is not a reasonable argument against using a technology. By the same token, we shouldn't use TLS for banking because it can be compromised.
Absolutely, but you can prevent someone from taking a picture of an AI image and claiming that someone else took the picture. As with anything else, it comes down to whether I trust the photographer, rather than what they've produced.

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (6 Tage her)

Als Antwort auf Daniel Quinn

BakedCatboy

Als Antwort auf Daniel Quinn • 6 Tage her • •

I think you are misunderstanding my mention of C2PA, which I only mentioned offhand as an example of prior art when it comes to digital media provenance that takes AI into account. If C2PA is indeed not about making a go/no-go determination of AI presence, then I don't think it's relevant to what OP is asking about because OP is asking about an "anti-ai proof", and I don't think a chain of trust that needs to be evaluated on an individual basis fulfills that role. I also did disclaim my mention of C2PA - that I haven't read it and don't know if it overlaps at all with this discussion. So in short I'm not misunderstanding C2PA because I'm not talking about C2PA, I just mentioned it as an interesting project that is tangentially related so that nobody feels the need to reply with "but you forgot about C2PA".

I’m more interested in the high-level: “can we solve this by guaranteeing the origin” question, and I think the answer to that is yes

I think you are glossing over the possibility that someone uses Photosho

I’m more interested in the high-level: “can we solve this by guaranteeing the origin” question, and I think the answer to that is yes

I think you are glossing over the possibility that someone uses Photoshop to maliciously edit a photo, adding Adobe to the chain of trust. If instead you are suggesting that only individuals sign the chain of trust, then there is no way anyone will bother looking up each random person who edited an image (let alone every photographer) so they can check if it's trustworthy. Again I don't think that lines up with what OP is asking for. In addition, we already have a way to verify the origin of an image - just check the source AP posting an image on their site is currently equivalent to them signing it, so the only difference is some provenance, which I don't think provides any value unless the edit metadata is secured as I mention below. If you can't find the source then it's the same as an image without a signature chain. This system can't doesn't force unverified images to have an untrustworthy signature chain so you will mostly either have images with trustworthy signature chains that also include a credit that you can manually check or images without a source or a signature. The only way it can be useful is if checking the signature chain is easier than checking the website of the credited source, which if it requires the user to make the same determination I don't think it will move the needle besides making it marginally easier for those who would have checked for the source anyway to check faster.

I don’t think we need any sort of controls on defining the types of edits at all.

I disagree, the entire idea of the signature chain appears to be for the purpose of identifying potentially untrustworthy edits. If you can't be sure that the claimed edit is accurate, then you are deciding entirely based on the identity of the signatory - in which case storing the edit note is moot because it can't be used to narrow down which signature could be responsible for an AI modification.

If AP said they cropped the image, and if I trust AP, then I trust them as a link in the chain

The thing about this is that if you trust AP to be honest about their edits, then you likely already trust them to verify the source - this is something they already do so it seems the rest of the chain is moot. To use your own example, I can't see a world where we regularly need to verify that AP didn't take the image that was edited by Infowars posted on facebook, crop it, and sign it with AP's key. That is just about the only situation where I see the value in having the whole chain, but that's not solving a problem we currently have. If you were worried that a trusted source would get their image from an untrusted source, they wouldn't be a trusted source. And if a trusted source posts an image where it gets compressed or shared, it'll be on their official account or website which already vouches for it.

Worrying about MITM attacks is not a reasonable argument against using a technology. By the same token, we shouldn’t use TLS for banking because it can be compromised

The difference with TLS is that the malicious parties are not in ownership of the endpoints, so it's not at all comparable. In the case of a malicious photographer, the malicious party owns the hardware to be exploited. If the malicious party has physical access to the hardware it's almost always game over.

Absolutely, but you can prevent someone from taking a picture of an AI image and claiming that someone else took the picture. As with anything else, it comes down to whether I trust the photographer, rather than what they’ve produced.

Yes and this is exactly the problem, it comes down to whether you trust the photographer, meaning each user needs to research the source and make up their own mind. The system would have changed nothing from now, because in both cases you need to check the source and decide for yourself. You might argue that at least with a chain of signatures the source is attached to the image, but I don't think in practice that will change anything since any fake image will lack a signature just as how many fake images are not credited. The question OP seems to be asking is about a system that can make that determination because leaving it up to the user to check is exactly the problem we currently have.

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (6 Tage her)

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

qaz

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 1 Woche her • •

Yes, several large AI companies themselves are "watermarking" their images. nytimes.com/2024/02/08/busines…

Google Joins Effort to Help Spot Content Made With A.I.

The tech company’s plan is similar to one announced two days earlier by Meta, another Silicon Valley giant.

^{Tiffany Hsu (The New York Times)}

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

DeadMartyr

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 1 Woche her • •

Being able to "prove" that something is AI generated usually means that:

A) The model the generated it leaves a watermark, either visually or hidden

B) The model is well known enough that you can deduce a pattern and reference what you're checking with that pattern.

The problem with the former is that you are trusted this corporations (or individuals training their own models, or malicious actors) to do so.

There are also problems with the latter:
The models are constantly iterating and being patched to fix issues that people notice (favoring certain words, not being able to draw glasses of liquids full to the brim, etc)

Also, if the image or work was made using a niche or not well-documented AI then it probably wouldn't be a pattern that you're checking.

Also also, theres a high false positive rate, because it's just pattern matching mostly.

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (1 Woche her)

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

Daniel Quinn

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 1 Woche her • •

I actually spent a few years of my life writing a whole software project for exactly this purpose, and I still think that it's the only practical way to solve this problem.

Called "Aletheia", it ditches the idea that software can spot a fake entirely and instead provides a way to guarantee the author of a piece of media. If you trust the source, you can trust the image/video/document/whatever.

If you're curious, here are a few relevant links:

Daniel Quinn / aletheia-python · GitLab

A Python implementation of Aletheia

^GitLab

mögen das

Als Antwort auf Daniel Quinn

Condiment2085

Als Antwort auf Daniel Quinn • 1 Woche her • •

If you trust the source, you can trust the image/video/document/whatever.

I think this is key. There have always been sources that have been incredibly trustworthy that people choose to ignore. Like AP News or Reuters for example. Sometimes they might make mistakes but as long as they keep fixing them in a timely manner that's what's important.

Yeah it's still possible they could post an AI image - but that's why you compare sources.

Besides that would ruin the credibility they've spent decades building.

Als Antwort auf Daniel Quinn

Condiment2085

Als Antwort auf Daniel Quinn • 1 Woche her • •

Read the beginning of the white paper two - great work! I can tell you put care into this.

Is this similar to how the NFT was supposed to work?

Als Antwort auf Condiment2085

Daniel Quinn

Als Antwort auf Condiment2085 • 6 Tage her • •

Thanks! And no, this is absolutely nothing like NFTs.

NFTs require the existence of a blockchain and are basically a way of encoding a record of "ownership" on that chain:

Alice owns this: https://something.ca/...

If the image at that URL changes (this is called a rug pull) or a competing blockchain is developed, then the NFT is meaningless. The biggest problem though is the wasted effort in maintaining that blockchain. It's a crazy amount of resources wasted just to establish the origin.

Aletheia is much simpler: your private key is yours and lives on your computer, and your public key lives in DNS or on your website at a given URL. The images, videos, documents, etc. are all tagged with metadata that provides (a) the origin of the public key (that DNS record or your website) and a cryptographic proof that this file was signed by whomever owns the corresponding private key. This ties the file to the origin domain/site, effectively tying it to the reputation of the owners of that site.

The big benefit to this is

Als Antwort auf Daniel Quinn

Condiment2085

Als Antwort auf Daniel Quinn • 6 Tage her • •

Thanks for the explanation!

Als Antwort auf Daniel Quinn

null

Als Antwort auf Daniel Quinn • 6 Tage her • •

Sounds much more similar to something like NOSTR. I've always like the simplicity of using a keypair as an identity.

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

perestroika

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 1 Woche her • •

Negative proof: the AI company signs it with their watermark.

Positive proof: the photographer signs it with their personal key, providing a way to contact them. Sure, it could be a fake identity, but you can attempt to verify and conclude that.

Cumulative positive and negative proof: on top of the photographer, news organizations add their signatures and remarks (e.g. BBC: "we know and trust this person", Guardian: "we verified the scene", Reuters: "we tried to verify this photo, but the person could not be contacted").

The photo, in the end, would not be just a bitmap, but a container file containing the bitmap (possibly with a steganographically embedded watermark) and various signatures granting or withdrawing trust.

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (6 Tage her)

Als Antwort auf perestroika

Korhaka

Als Antwort auf perestroika • 6 Tage her • •

Isn't that more like trusting your source though, which media companies either do or don't do already.

Als Antwort auf Korhaka

perestroika

Als Antwort auf Korhaka • 6 Tage her • •

It would be a method of representing trust or distrust in a structured way that's automatically accessible to the end user.

The user could right-click an image, pick "check trust" from a menu, and be presented with a list of metainfo to see who has originally signed it, and what various parties have concluded about it.

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (6 Tage her)

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

keepthepace

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 6 Tage her • •

You should never have trusted images before generative AI either. Trace the source and only trust the image if the source is legitimate.

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

mindbleach

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 6 Tage her • •

Can't.

Adversarial efforts are how some networks get trained.

irelephant [he/him]🍭 via TechTakes

1 Woche her • •

irelephant [he/him]🍭
1 Woche her • •

Crypto being the solution to the bot problem is the most techbro take I have seen so far.

#techtakes

Als Antwort auf irelephant [he/him]🍭

Mubelotix

Als Antwort auf irelephant [he/him]🍭 • 1 Woche her • •

It could at least solve the Nicole problem. Proof-of-work was invented for exactly this : reducing spam in inboxes

Als Antwort auf Mubelotix

Charlie Stross

Als Antwort auf Mubelotix • 1 Woche her • •

@techtakes You know what else would solve the Nicole problem? Old-skool USENET style client-side killfiles circa 1990, applied to DMs—your inbox-equivalent.

@TechTakes

sabreW4K3 via Solarpunk

1 Woche her • •

sabreW4K3
1 Woche her • •

The Crown Estate Lays Big Floating Offshore Wind Plans

The US invested millions to help develop floating offshore wind turbine technology, only to see them float off to other nations.

^{Tina Casey (CleanTechnica)}

#solarpunk

Mediathekperlen via NexxtBlogs

1 Woche her • •

Mediathekperlen
1 Woche her • •

Rosalie Thomass – „Rufmord“ (2018)

Schon sieben Jahre alt soll dieser Thriller von ZDF & ARTE sein. Unglaublich eigentlich, weil ich mich noch so gut an seine Erstausstrahlung erinnern kann, als wäre sie erst gestern gewesen. Und weil mir das bei deutschen Krimis wirklich nicht oft passiert, muss der Film etwas Besonderes sein. So etwas sehen sie wahrscheinlich nur selten! (3Sat, WH)

Mediathekperlen | Rosalie Thomass – „Rufmord“ (2018)

Schon sieben Jahre alt soll dieser Thriller von ZDF & ARTE sein. Unglaublich eigentlich, weil ich mich noch so gut an seine Erstausstrahlung erinnern kann…

^{Mediathekperlen (NexxtPress)}

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (1 Woche her)

Nyssa via Solarpunk

1 Woche her • •

Nyssa
1 Woche her • •

Gifts of Nature, Maladies of the Market | How markets shape chemicals derived from nature

Gifts of Nature, Maladies of the Market

Sucrose, common table sugar, chemical compound C12H22O11. Traditionally, humans found sucrose, along with other sweeteners such as fructose, through natural means. Keeping bees, tapping maple trees, extracting juice from sugarcane stalks.

^{open.substack.com}

#solarpunk

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (1 Woche her)

AllNewTypeFace via SneerClub

1 Woche her • •

AllNewTypeFace
1 Woche her • •

Moldbug has a sad

Apparently DOGE isn’t killing enough people (literally or metaphorically)

Curtis Yarvin Fears His Authoritarian Fantasy Is Flopping

Dark Enlightenment guru sees his desired revolution unraveling under the weight of its own stupidity

^{Gil Duran (The Nerd Reich)}

#sneerclub

Als Antwort auf AllNewTypeFace

rook

Als Antwort auf AllNewTypeFace • 1 Woche her • •

It’s been a long time since I read any moldbug, and I vaguely recalled him as someone as a tedious reactionary who wouldn’t stop goddamn writing. Was he always this murderously unhinged, openly fantasising about mass graves?

Anyway, I hope the realisation that the ultra rich are no smarter or more capable than anyone else gnaws away at what ever he has in lieu of a soul and consumes the rest of him.

Als Antwort auf rook

Charlie Stross

Als Antwort auf rook • 1 Woche her • •

@sneerclub No; back in the early 1990s he was an amusing usenet troll with a sideline in ice-cold sarcasm, but the libertarianism hadn't eaten his brain yet (although it had already gotten to his elder brother, the cypherpunk).

@SneerClub

bitofhope via TechTakes

1 Woche her • •

bitofhope
1 Woche her • •

Yet another rant about the state of the modern web

A tale of a man on the Internet who caught a cold

Based on a true story

Damn, the fever is down and the cough is easing up, but my nose feels like it's lined with sandpaper. What to do? Look it up!

Duck Duck Go: dry sinuses

Results:
* (Amazon) Dry Nasal Passage – Deals on Dry Nasal Passage
[ad] * (Thrive Market) Banyan Sinus Nasal Drops – Organic Sinus Remedy
[ad] * (Healthline) Dry Sinuses: Inside Nose, Throat, Symptoms, Headache, and More…
* (Medical News Today) Dry sinuses: Remedies, causes, and how to treat them – Medical…
* (Healthline) 5 Effective Ways to Treat a Dry Nose

Alright, I'll take the bottom Healthline link, the one that doesn't look like it had a stroke.

Full screen popup:

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A tale of a man on the Internet who caught a cold

Based on a true story

Damn, the fever is down and the cough is easing up, but my nose feels like it's lined with sandpaper. What to do? Look it up!

Duck Duck Go: dry sinuses

Results:
* (Amazon) Dry Nasal Passage – Deals on Dry Nasal Passage
[ad] * (Thrive Market) Banyan Sinus Nasal Drops – Organic Sinus Remedy
[ad] * (Healthline) Dry Sinuses: Inside Nose, Throat, Symptoms, Headache, and More…
* (Medical News Today) Dry sinuses: Remedies, causes, and how to treat them – Medical…
* (Healthline) 5 Effective Ways to Treat a Dry Nose

Alright, I'll take the bottom Healthline link, the one that doesn't look like it had a stroke.

Full screen popup:

Please accept our privacy terms

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While we continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will allow all readers to experience our ~~vampirism~~ content, we are providing you with 10 articles that highlight the breadth and quality of our content, because that's why you're here, right? To read random articles about random medical conditions you didn't fucking ask about? You are on this page because you disallowed the purposes listed in the “How we use your data” section of our Privacy Settings page and don't forget to feel ashamed about it.

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Old news, bucko. Manage deez nuts. Disallow all. Oh for the love of…

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They're the same fucking site. Alright, maybe this is another of those cases where DDG is easy to SEO game.

Duck Duck Go: dry sinuses !g

I'll just fucking ignore the AI answer before it tells me to eat glue. Oh, the results are the fucking same, but there's a Mayo Clinic in there. I know from experience that one has also cucked itself from the EU. Fine, I'll throw the Healthline link to archive.is

To verify you're not a robot, please click on tiny pixelated images of fire hydrants for five minutes while an actual robot pretends to know better than you what fire hydrants look like. Doesn't this make you so confident about self-driving cars?

One eternity of downloading later:

How to treat dry sinuses

Dry sinuses occur when the mucous membranes in your sinuses lack proper moisture. This can lead to dry nasal passages, discomfort, nosebleeds, and similar unpleasant symptoms.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Curabitur sagittis eros vitae elit vehicula congue. Curabitur pellentesque risus sit amet ipsum vehicula, nec elementum sem iaculis. Mauris fermentum egestas est non tempus. Aenean urna diam, bibendum ac aliquet id, vulputate ut nunc. Ut luctus leo eu lacus consequat vulputate. In consequat augue at cursus tempor. Aenean tristique felis id fermentum tristique. Maecenas fermentum nunc vitae purus efficitur, id malesuada dui elementum. Etiam lobortis viverra turpis eu eleifend. Integer ac efficitur lacus. Nullam rutrum nisl lacus, bibendum maximus turpis vehicula eu. In at turpis lacus. Etiam libero tellus, imperdiet a fringilla non, tincidunt id ligula. Ut sodales convallis mauris sed semper. Nunc laoreet eros eget nulla mollis consectetur.

What are the symptoms of dry sinuses?

Aliquam sem tellus, interdum non mattis eget, imperdiet nec odio. Duis est mauris, posuere at risus vel, eleifend iaculis tortor. Vivamus in nisi sit amet sapien vestibulum ultricies eu eu ante. Integer eleifend augue mollis, vehicula orci et, condimentum orci. In et ultricies ligula. Praesent vitae lacus neque. Aliquam venenatis aliquam nulla ut dapibus. Integer a ligula a tortor consequat interdum in quis mi. Nam hendrerit mauris vel augue mollis ullamcorper ac ut justo. Curabitur aliquet eros ipsum, sit amet tempus ipsum tincidunt ac.

What causes dry sinuses?

Ut elementum elementum sapien, et interdum dolor commodo eu. Integer euismod rutrum augue in consectetur. Cras vel ultrices odio, nec congue massa. Proin et congue erat, et feugiat magna. Curabitur blandit vitae ligula sed sollicitudin. Nunc et suscipit quam. Morbi convallis, nisl vel tincidunt tempus, nisi dolor porta tellus, quis rhoncus urna enim vel libero. In iaculis ut elit sed interdum. Aliquam et felis at ante sodales pellentesque non vel diam. Donec consectetur eget metus aliquet gravida. Ut diam ipsum, ornare ac ullamcorper ac, tempus ut tortor. Maecenas dapibus auctor laoreet. Donec varius congue velit, id gravida ex ultricies vitae. Donec scelerisque condimentum erat. Donec auctor lacus sed risus vehicula placerat.

How are dry sinuses treated?

There are many ways you can treat dry sinuses at home to alleviate discomfort caused by seasonal allergies, irritation from chemicals, or drying from medications or dry air. To get relief, you can:
* place a humidifier in your bedroom at night to keep the air from getting too dry
* stop taking drying medications, such as antihistamines (or ask your doctor or pharmacist to help you choose something with fewer side effects)
* drink plenty of water to stay hydrated
get some fresh air if the air in your house is stale or stagnant
* remove as many allergens and irritants from your environment as possible
* irrigate your sinuses with sterile saline using a neti pot or similar product
* use nasal spray to hydrate and lubricate your nasal passages and sinuses
* take a hot shower and inhale the steam
* diffuse essential oils like lavender, peppermint, or lemon for allergies
In some cases, your doctor might need to recommend treatment for your dry sinuses. Make an appointment with your doctor if you:
* have an autoimmune disorder like Sjögren syndrome
* praesent eget ipsum bibendum turpis blandit vulputate hendrerit quis lorem.
Sed aliquam feugiat bibendum. Pellentesque ornare erat id quam fermentum congue. Proin vitae pretium urna. Nunc tincidunt, lectus id fermentum aliquam, felis justo molestie est, quis viverra erat mauris at nulla. Fusce viverra justo dapibus, venenatis metus at, hendrerit dui. Interdum et malesuada fames ac ante ipsum primis in faucibus. Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos himenaeos. Fusce eget neque luctus, euismod elit at, finibus erat. Vestibulum semper nunc a enim sagittis tristique. Praesent vestibulum tincidunt ex, eget luctus tortor iaculis et. Maecenas sit amet purus non orci dapibus pellentesque nec vitae lectus.

Alright, take it easy with antihistamines and dig out that nasal spray. Thanks, internet. This definitely needed all these steps to solve.

Edit: archive link to the actual article in case it'll save someone else a couple of minutes

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (1 Woche her)

Als Antwort auf bitofhope

HedyL

Als Antwort auf bitofhope • 1 Woche her • •

To me, those forced Google AI answers are a lot more disconcerting than even all the rest. Sure, publishers always hated content creators, because paying them ate into their profit margins from advertising. However, Google always got most of its content (the indexed webpages) for free anyway, so what exactly was their problem?

Also, how much more energy do these forced AI answers consume, compared with regular search queries? Has anyone done the math?

Furthermore, if many people really loved that feature so much, why not make it opt-in?

At the same time, as many people already pointed out, prioritizing AI-generated answers will probably further disincentivize creators of good original content, which means there will be even less usable material to feed to AI in the future.

Is it really all about pleasing Wall Street? Or about getting people to spend more time on Google itself rather than leave for other websites? Are they really confident that they will all stay and not disappear completely at some point?

Als Antwort auf HedyL

Charlie Stross

Als Antwort auf HedyL • 1 Woche her • •

One twist: I imagine google devotes CONSIDERABLE effort to aggressively caching LLM-generated answers (probably parsing queries and merging similar ones before checking the cache for previous replies). That'd reduce their costs substantially compared to just throwing every question at an LLM directly. And it keeps eyeballs on Google's own content and own served ads rather than wandering off into the wildernessd of the non-google public web.

Mediathekperlen via NexxtBlogs

1 Woche her • •

Mediathekperlen
1 Woche her • •

Joachim A. Lang – „Mackie Messer – Brechts Dreigroschenfilm“ (2018)

Was für ein Fest für Brecht-Nerds und Film-Nerds gleichermaßen. Die „Dreigroschenoper“ in der Version von Joachim A. Lang ist ein Film, den Sie gesehen haben müssen. Selbst wenn er über meinen Horizont beizeiten hinausging, konnte ich was lernen und wurde göttlich unterhalten. (3Sat, WH)

Mediathekperlen | „Mackie Messer – Brechts Dreigroschenfilm“ (2018)

Was für ein Fest für Brecht-Nerds und Film-Nerds gleichermaßen. Die „Dreigroschenoper“ in der Version von Joachim A. Lang ist ein Film, den Sie gesehen haben…

^{Mediathekperlen (NexxtPress)}

#Musik #Kino #film #deutschland #3sat #musical #larseidinger #Nationalsozialismus #oper #swr #bertoltbrecht #hannahherzsprung #robertstadlober #Programmkino #2018 #BrittaHammelstein #ChristianHockenbrink #ChristianRedl #ClaudiaMichelsen #DavidSlama #GodehardGiese #GuidoLambrecht #HannaPlaß #HendrikHeutmann #JesseAlbert #JoachimALang #JoachimKról #KurtSchwertsik #KurtWeill #MarcusCalvin #MarkusTomczyk #MateuszDopieralski #MaxRaabe #MeikeDroste #MichaelSouvignier #Musikfilm #PeriBaumeister #RaikoKüster #RainerLaupichler #RobertDölle #TillDerenbach #TobiasMoretti #VilmarBieri #WalterMair

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (1 Woche her)

stabby_cicada via Solarpunk

1 Woche her • •

stabby_cicada
1 Woche her • •

Africa at a Crossroads: A Future of Ruin or Renewal? | how ordinary people are using traditional knowledge to fight desertification and build climate resilience

Africa at a Crossroads: A Future of Ruin or Renewal? - resilience

Africa’s history is not just one of suffering—it is also one of resilience, ingenuity, and renewal. Across the continent, ordinary people are accomplishing the extraordinary.

^{Resilience (Resilience.org)}

#solarpunk

mögen das

schnurrito via Deutschland

1 Woche her • •

schnurrito
1 Woche her • •

Union und SPD wollen Pflicht zu elektronischer Bezahlmöglichkeit

Elektronisches Bezahlen - egal ob mit Karte oder einer anderen Technik - kann helfen, Steuerbetrug zu vermeiden. Deshalb planen Union und SPD laut einem Bericht eine Pflicht für Geschäfte, eine Alternative zur Barzahlung anzubieten.

^{tagesschau.de}

#deutschland

Als Antwort auf vollkorntomate

ClemensG

Als Antwort auf vollkorntomate • 1 Woche her • •

Nur vereinzelt, nicht flächendeckend. In einzelnen Gebieten Deutschlands ist z.B. für uns Taxler eine solche Kartenzahlungs-Akzeptanzpflicht verordnet worden. Aber es gibt landesweit immer noch Kioske, gastronomische Einrichtungen und andere Geschäfte, die Kartenzahlung gar nicht oder erst ab einer bestimmten Umsatzhöhe anbieten. Bargeld ist bisher das einzige gesetzliche Zahlungsmittel.

In einem Land, in dem Banken die mittlerweile europaweit als kostenlose Dienstleistung vorgeschriebene Sofortüberweisung nicht als Überweisungs-Standard, sondern als (bis vor kurzem kostenpflichtige) Sonderbehandlung anbieten, darf einen bei bargeldlosen Bezahlungen nichts wundern.

#Bargeld #Kartenzahlung #Bargeldlos

(2)

#bargeld #bargeldlos #kartenzahlung

Als Antwort auf ClemensG

ClemensG

Als Antwort auf ClemensG • 1 Woche her • •

(2)

Durch Zahlung per Karte ist eine Zahlung im Gegensatz zum Bargeld plötzlich mit einer Gebühr belegt. Viele haben noch unvorteilhafte Verträge mit 2,75% und, noch schlimmer, zusätzlicher Gebühr pro Vorgang und, am schlimmsten, monatlicher Mietgebühr für das Kartenlese-Gerät.

App-Revolutionäre in der Kartenzahlungs-Branche wie Sumup und das mittlerweile zu PayPal gehörende (i)Zettle nehmen 'nur' 1,39% und sonst nichts, die Geräte gibt es für einen einmaligen kleinen Preis (ab 29,- EUR). Noch besser: Mittlerweile kann jeder mit einem NFC-fähigen Smartphone Kartenzahlungen bei solchen modernen Zahlungsdienstleister Kartenzahlungen annehmen. Offensichtlich ist die einstige Pflicht zu einem separaten Gerät mit Nummernblock gefallen.

(EOF)

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (1 Woche her)

BlueMonday1984 via TechTakes

2 Wochen her (Empfangen 1 Woche her) • •

BlueMonday1984
2 Wochen her (Empfangen 1 Woche her) • •

Stubsack: weekly thread for sneers not worth an entire post, week ending 6th April 2025

Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.

If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cut’n’paste it into its own post — there’s no quota for posting and the bar really isn’t that high.

The post Xitter web has spawned soo many “esoteric” right wing freaks, but there’s no appropriate sneer-space for them. I’m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged “culture critics” who write about everything but understand nothing. I’m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. They’re inescapable at this point, yet I don’t see them mocked (as much as they should be)
Like, there was one dude a whil

Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.

If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cut’n’paste it into its own post — there’s no quota for posting and the bar really isn’t that high.

The post Xitter web has spawned soo many “esoteric” right wing freaks, but there’s no appropriate sneer-space for them. I’m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged “culture critics” who write about everything but understand nothing. I’m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. They’re inescapable at this point, yet I don’t see them mocked (as much as they should be)
Like, there was one dude a while back who insisted that women couldn’t be surgeons because they didn’t believe in the moon or in stars? I think each and every one of these guys is uniquely fucked up and if I can’t escape them, I would love to sneer at them.

(Credit and/or blame to David Gerard for starting this. Also, happy April Fool's in advance.)

BlueMonday1984

2025-03-24 00:00:52

Stubsack: weekly thread for sneers not worth an entire post, week ending 30th March 2025

Need to let loose a primal scream without collecting footnotes first? Have a sneer percolating in your system but not enough time/energy to make a whole post about it? Go forth and be mid: Welcome to the Stubsack, your first port of call for learning fresh Awful you’ll near-instantly regret.
Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.
If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cut’n’paste it into its own post — there’s no quota for posting and the bar really isn’t that high.
The post Xitter web has spawned soo many “esoteric” right wing freaks, but there’s no appropriate sneer-space for them. I’m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged “culture critics” who write about everything but understand nothing. I’m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. They’re inescapable at this point, yet I don’t see them mocked (as much as they should be)
Like, there was one dude a while back who insisted that women couldn’t be surgeons because they didn’t believe in the moon or in stars? I think each and every one of these guys is uniquely fucked up and if I can’t escape them, I would love to sneer at them.

(Credit and/or blame to David Gerard for starting this.)

Als Antwort auf BlueMonday1984

David Gerard

Als Antwort auf BlueMonday1984 • 1 Woche her • •

a journalist wants to ask me about Urbit. Should I install Urbit so I can at least say I've tried it and can speak authoritatively?

[ ] no
[ ] hell no
[ ] jesus h. christ no why

i just had a 1.5 hour half-hour chat with another journalist about the Fucking Rationalists

i have a call with a third one scheduled for tomorrow

i have followed these fucks for 15 years in detail and i still don't know how to properly explain them to our lovely pivot-to-ai readers

at least it'll be these suckers' job to do the explaining while i rant

fuck. it's rationalist season

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (1 Woche her)

Als Antwort auf David Gerard

Charlie Stross

Als Antwort auf David Gerard • 1 Woche her • •

I've been following them for 35 years—hell, I hung out with Curtis Yarvin on usenet in the early 90s, visited him and fondled his lizard once in '93—and the only way I can explain them is that they're larping a bad post-cyberpunk novel and aren't entirely clear on the whole concept of "fiction".

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

gerikson

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross • 1 Woche her • •

fondled his lizard

I'm choosing to interpret that in the most euphemistically way possible

Als Antwort auf gerikson

Charlie Stross

Als Antwort auf gerikson • 1 Woche her • •

I mean, I *literally* fondled his lizard: it was about two feet long, green, and quite bad-tempered. (He and his student house had a room full of iguanas and snakes and suchlike. And a kitchen fridge door full of designer phenylethylamine hallucinogens. Or at least test tubes with labels identifying them as such. It was an eye-opening experience …

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

blakestacey

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross • 1 Woche her • •

Sheesh. Everyone knows you keep the phenethylamines inside the fridge proper, not on the door, where the temperature is less stable. (Source: the Shulgins' Kitchen Procedures I Have Known And Loved.)

Als Antwort auf blakestacey

Charlie Stross

Als Antwort auf blakestacey • 1 Woche her • •

I believe there was rapid turnover. (PIHKAL was cited as the cookbook being used. This was in 1993, so it was pretty new …)

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

YourNetworkIsHaunted

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross • 1 Woche her • •

I also legitimately can't tell the degree to which they don't understand they're LARPing a dystopia versus how much they completely understand that and that's why it's gonna be so awesome for them once they make fetch happen.

Als Antwort auf YourNetworkIsHaunted

Charlie Stross

Als Antwort auf YourNetworkIsHaunted • 1 Woche her • •

It's probably a mixture: some of them understand the relationship between beliefs and reality, a whole bunch of others are LARPing away (and we'd all be better off if they signed up to play EVE Online instead), there are probably some today who look at Yarvin and see a ladder to power and wealth, and everything in between.

You can't ascribe unity of understanding and intention to any group of n > 1 humans.

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

TinyTimmyTokyo

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross • 1 Woche her • •

As a fellow Usenet junkie from way back, now I'm curious which newsgroups Yarvin hung out in.

Als Antwort auf TinyTimmyTokyo

Charlie Stross

Als Antwort auf TinyTimmyTokyo • 1 Woche her • •

alt.peeves, alt.tasteless, probably most of the comp.* hierarchy, not sure where else.

Als Antwort auf BlueMonday1984

Sailor Sega Saturn

Als Antwort auf BlueMonday1984 • 1 Woche her • •

Linking this article just for the Palantir CEO quote at the end wired.com/story/doge-hackathon…

"We love disruption and whatever is good for America will be good for Americans and very good for Palantir,” Palantir CEO Alex Karp said in a February earnings call. “Disruption at the end of the day exposes things that aren't working. There will be ups and downs. This is a revolution, some people are going to get their heads cut off."

This is a revolution, some people are going to get their heads cut off

Holy smokes

David Gerard via SneerClub

2 Wochen her • •

David Gerard
2 Wochen her • •

How to explain our very good friends to normal humans?

Thinking about how the arsing fuck to explain the rationalists to normal people - especially as they are now a loud public problem along multiple dimensions.

The problem is that it's all deep in the weeds. Every part of it is "it can't be that stupid, you must be explaining it wrong."

With bitcoin, I have, over the years, simplified it to being a story of crooks and con men. The correct answer to "what is a blockchain and how does it work" is "it's a way to move money around out of the sight of regulators" and maybe "so it's for crooks and con men, and a small number of sincere libertarians" and don't even talk about cryptography or technology.

I dunno what the one sentence explanation is of this shit.

"The purpose of LessWrong rationality is for Yudkowsky to live forever as an emulation running on the mind of the AI God" is completely true, is the purpose of the whole thing, and is also WTF.

Maybe that and "so he started what turned into a cult and a series of cults"? At this point I'm piling up the absurdities again.

The Behind The Ba

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (2 Wochen her)

Als Antwort auf David Gerard

Charlie Stross

Als Antwort auf David Gerard • 2 Wochen her • •

TESCREAL is structurally an evangelical a-theist religion descended from the 19th century Russian Orthodox christianity of Nikolai Fyodorovitch Fyodorov and in my new book I will—

Nah, forget the book, I've got the attention of the POTUS's ketamine-addled fractional-trillionaire shitposter, get in the car, losers! (Thows brake pedal at puzzled pedestrian)

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

JohnBierce

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross • 1 Woche her • •

The car's a Tesla, isn't it?

Als Antwort auf JohnBierce

Charlie Stross

Als Antwort auf JohnBierce • 1 Woche her • •

CyberTruck, ofc.

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross

o7___o7

Als Antwort auf Charlie Stross • 1 Woche her • •

TESCREAL is structurally an evangelical a-theist religion descended from the 19th century Russian Orthodox christianity of Nikolai Fyodorovitch Fyodorov and in my new book I will—

Hannu Rajaniemi beat us all to the punch all the way back in 2010, didn't he? The Sobornost are exactly who the Rationalists want to be when they grow up.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quan…

2010 novel by Hannu Rajaniemi

^{Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)}

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (1 Woche her)

Als Antwort auf o7___o7

Charlie Stross

Als Antwort auf o7___o7 • 1 Woche her • •

@sneerclub Yep, but hopefully my next space opera will take it to the next level (once I finish it—I've been working on it since 2015) …

@SneerClub

poVoq via Solarpunk

2 Wochen her • •

poVoq
2 Wochen her • •

SOLPUNK 25 event in Poland

Time and place
19th-26th of August 2025, first two-three days are buildup.
Podebłocie 100km south from Warsaw, Poland.
what is solpunk?
Solpunk is a gathering for anyone interested in creating anything solarpunk with others!
What does that actually mean? Is it an un-conference? Is it a festival? Is it just some punks in a field? A wise guess is that people here are interested in many of the following things:
Lowtech and community tech, energy reduction and renewables, sharing resources, temporary nomadic community, dancing, alternative economy, creating a just future, hackathons, dumpster diving, opensource hardware, software and production, means of care and solidarity, community

SOLPUNK

^{solpunk.ukrudt.net}

#solarpunk

acargitz via Solarpunk

2 Wochen her • •

acargitz
2 Wochen her • •

In 1996 three activists planted a garden at the Ontario legislature and were charged with criminal mischief

Source

Matthew Behrens

TBT. 28 Years ago, a group of 16 of us were celebrating our victory at trial following our arrests for planting vegetables at the provincial legislature to resist the brutal 21.6% social assistance...

^{www.facebook.com}

#solarpunk

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (2 Wochen her)

mögen das

Als Antwort auf acargitz

mad_lentil

Als Antwort auf acargitz • 2 Wochen her • •

Sounds like some real stand-up folks.

SunDancerGE via Warmonger

2 Wochen her • •

SunDancerGE
2 Wochen her • •

Yes, I’m biting the (proverbial) bullet and put money where my mouth is.

In other words: I bought into Armoured Clash. I ordered

2x Command and Conquest Decks

1x Crown: Introductory Set

1x Imperium Introductory Set

That should give me more than enough dice, tokens and minis for small games. If I like the game I can always expand.

[gallery columns=“2″ link=“file“ […]

warmonger.de/put-money-where-m…

PUT money WHERE mouth | Warmonger

^{www.warmonger.de}

#10mm #warcradlestudios #armouredclash

SunDancerGE via Warmonger

2 Wochen her • •

SunDancerGE
2 Wochen her • •

A friendly short reminder for today’s (April 1st) THH (The Hobby Hangout).

It’s the 250th episode!

There will be:

Blood! (kind of)

Boobs! (maybe)

Bubbles! (most certainly)

Beer! (Bet your butt!)

Battlereports! (What?)

Banter! (that’s a given)

Be there or be a rectangular shape!

Here are the times:

German Time 21:00

UK Time 20:00

[UTC/GMT 19:00]

Join in […]

warmonger.de/the-hobby-hangout…

[The Hobby Hangout] #250 Blood! Boobs! Bubbles! | Warmonger

^{www.warmonger.de}

#twitch #thehobbyhangout #250

MrMakabar via Solarpunk

2 Wochen her • •

MrMakabar
2 Wochen her • •

As a library, we're not here to judge, we're here to help

Sign in a library saying: "Nervous for asking?" Then showing a number of topics such as rape, bullding, sex, self-esteem, suicide and so forth with the corresponding shelfs and then "As a library, we're not here to judge, we're here to help"

#solarpunk

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (2 Wochen her)

mögen das

teilten dies erneut

Als Antwort auf MrMakabar

trolololol

Als Antwort auf MrMakabar • 2 Wochen her • •

Hey these are great suggestions, I'll get child custody for today

Als Antwort auf trolololol

ceiphas

Als Antwort auf trolololol • 2 Wochen her • •

Had depression yesterday, would not recommend...

Als Antwort auf MrMakabar

suoko

Als Antwort auf MrMakabar • 2 Wochen her • •

Post-Incarceration Syndrome (PICS) ?

AbnormalHumanBeing via Solarpunk

2 Wochen her • •

AbnormalHumanBeing
2 Wochen her • •

Solarpunk Digital Freedom pt 1/2: Free Open Source Software(FOSS) and Linux

Welcome to Solarpunk USA, a guide to creating a solarpunk future. Solarpunk is much more than art, its a lifestyle we can have now or very soon if we learn how to organize our communities with dire...

^{AbnormalBeingsTube}

#solarpunk

Als Antwort auf ex_06

piratekaiser

Als Antwort auf ex_06 • 1 Woche her • •

That's not a problem for FOSS to solve, but for the environment which allows it

Als Antwort auf piratekaiser

ex_06

Als Antwort auf piratekaiser • 1 Woche her • •

Then someone could say that foss is too much, better go open source and then the environment will have to take care of the stuff that basic licenses won’t take care of

I’d rather strive for the better and look for copyfarleft licenses

imblue via Solarpunk

2 Wochen her • •

imblue
2 Wochen her • •

French Low-Tech travels around the world growin crops on his self-sustaining catamaran

Les escales de l'innovation - Voyages et découvertes | ARTE

À la reconquête de l'autonomie, Corentin de Chatelperron et son équipe sont partis faire le tour du monde sur leur catamaran baptisé "Nomade des mers".

^ARTE

#solarpunk

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (2 Wochen her)

Als Antwort auf imblue

amino

Als Antwort auf imblue • 2 Wochen her • •

only a French could think of stuffing 2 chicken in a cage on a boat /j

Als Antwort auf imblue

eleitl

Als Antwort auf imblue • 2 Wochen her • •

It's not self-sustaining. Corentin's effort in the Baja California was closer, but the couple's naive attitude is off-putting.

BlueMonday1984 via TechTakes

3 Wochen her (Empfangen 2 Wochen her) • •

BlueMonday1984
3 Wochen her (Empfangen 2 Wochen her) • •

Stubsack: weekly thread for sneers not worth an entire post, week ending 30th March 2025

Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.

If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cut’n’paste it into its own post — there’s no quota for posting and the bar really isn’t that high.

The post Xitter web has spawned soo many “esoteric” right wing freaks, but there’s no appropriate sneer-space for them. I’m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged “culture critics” who write about everything but understand nothing. I’m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. They’re inescapable at this point, yet I don’t see them mocked (as much as they should be)
Like, there was one dude a whil

Als Antwort auf BlueMonday1984

gerikson

Als Antwort auf BlueMonday1984 • 3 Wochen her (Empfangen 2 Wochen her) • •

Stackslobber posts evidence that transhumanism is a literal cult, HN crowd is not having it

news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4…

The Tranhumanist Cult Test | Hacker News

^{news.ycombinator.com}

Als Antwort auf gerikson

V0ldek

Als Antwort auf gerikson • 2 Wochen her • •

In my head transhumanism is this cool idea where I'd get to have a zoom function in my eye

But of course none of that could exist in our capitalist hellscape because of just all the reasons the ruling class would use it to opress the working class.

And then you find out what transhumanists actually advocate for and it's just eugenics. Like without even a tiny bit of plausible deniability. They're proud it's eugenics.

Als Antwort auf V0ldek

Mad A. Argon

Als Antwort auf V0ldek • 2 Wochen her • •

after reading a book written in Cyberpunk 2077 universe, I had bitter though about why the hell we couldn't have cool body modifications if we already have to live in cyberpunk world. But cyberpunk things we could have are surveillance and powerful corporations.

Als Antwort auf Mad A. Argon

Charlie Stross

Als Antwort auf Mad A. Argon • 2 Wochen her • •

@techtakes Obviously you read the wrong cyberpunk. (Go root out Bruce Sterling's short story "20 Evocations", collected in Schismatrix Plus, and you'll see an assassin having his arms and legs repossessed because he can't kill enough people to keep up with the loan repayment schedule …)

@TechTakes

Als Antwort auf V0ldek

Roxanne

Als Antwort auf V0ldek • 2 Wochen her • •

transhumanism has nothing to do with eugenics lmao

Als Antwort auf Roxanne

froztbyte

Als Antwort auf Roxanne • 2 Wochen her • •

it's extremely established that it does

Als Antwort auf froztbyte

Roxanne

Als Antwort auf froztbyte • 2 Wochen her • •

how to tell me you dont know anything about transhumanism without telling me you dont know anything about transhumanism:

Als Antwort auf Roxanne

Charlie Stross

Als Antwort auf Roxanne • 2 Wochen her • •

I think @d4rkness is eliding a few steps that look clear to them, but they're basically right: eugenics is about all transhumanists can do *today*, a lot of transhumanism is warmed-over Technocracy (the Musk family's ideological wellspring), Technocracy was *def* on board with eugenics (and apartheid), so here we are: they aspire to more but eugenics is what they can do today so they're doing it.

(I've been studying transhumanism since roughly 1990 and that's my considered opinion.)

@Roxanne

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (2 Wochen her)

Andreas via no more cubes

2 Wochen her • •

Andreas
2 Wochen her • •

Perspektive

Mehrheit der Bundesbürger hält sich für unersetzlich.

Das Ding ist halt, dass darüber nicht der Bundesbürger entscheidet. Sondern der Chef, der denkt, daß das bisschen Arbeit auch eine KI machen kann.

#ai #Arbeitsplatz #automation #heiseDe

KI am Arbeitsplatz: Mehrheit der Bundesbürger hält sich für unersetzlich

Jeder dritte Beschäftigte nutzt laut dem TÜV-Verband bereits generative KI für berufliche Zwecke. Viele schätzen ihre Tätigkeit aber weiter für unersetzbar ein.

^{Stefan Krempl (heise online)}

#ai #Arbeitsplatz #automation #heisede

Instantnudel via ich_iel

2 Wochen her • •

Instantnudel
2 Wochen her • •

ich😔iel

#ich_iel

diz via TechTakes

3 Wochen her (Empfangen 2 Wochen her) • •

diz
3 Wochen her (Empfangen 2 Wochen her) • •

Gemini 2.5 "reasoning", no real improvement on river crossings.

So I signed up for a free month of their crap because I wanted to test if it solves novel variants of the river crossing puzzle.

Like this one:

You have a duck, a carrot, and a potato. You want to transport them across the river using a boat that can take yourself and up to 2 other items. If the duck is left unsupervised, it will run away.

Unsurprisingly, it does not:

https://g.co/gemini/share/a79dc80c5c6c

https://g.co/gemini/share/59b024d0908b

The only 2 new things seem to be that old variants are no longer novel, and that it is no longer limited to producing incorrect solutions - now it can also incorrectly claim that the solution is impossible.

I think chain of thought / reasoning is a fundamentally dishonest technology. At the end of the day, just like older LLMs it requires that someone solved a similar problem (either online or perhaps in a problem solution pair they generated if they do that to augment the training data).

But it outputs quasi reasoning to pretend that it is actually solving the problem live.

‎Gemini - River Crossing Puzzle Solution

Created with Gemini Advanced

^Gemini

Als Antwort auf diz

BlueMonday1984

Als Antwort auf diz • 3 Wochen her (Empfangen 2 Wochen her) • •

I'm kinda tired, but this puzzle's shoved itself into my brain. The obvious solution I can see is, roughly speaking:

1) Take the duck and carrot across

2) Take the duck back

3) Take the duck and potato across

Als Antwort auf BlueMonday1984

diz

Als Antwort auf BlueMonday1984 • 3 Wochen her (Empfangen 2 Wochen her) • •

Yeah, exactly. There's no trick to it at all, unlike the original puzzle.

I also tested OpenAI's offerings a few months back with similarly nonsensical results: awful.systems/post/1769506

All-vegetables no duck variant is solved correctly now, but I doubt it is due to improved reasoning as such, I think they may have augmented the training data with some variants of the river crossing. The river crossing is one of the top most known puzzles, and various people have been posting hilarious bot failures with variants of it. So it wouldn't be unexpected that their training data augmentation has river crossing variants.

Of course, there's very many ways in which the puzzle can be modified, and their augmentation would only cover obvious stuff like variation on what items can be left with what items or spots on the boat.

Yeah, exactly. There's no trick to it at all, unlike the original puzzle.

I also tested OpenAI's offerings a few months back with similarly nonsensical results: awful.systems/post/1769506

diz

2024-06-24 19:46:26

[long] Some tests of how much AI "understands" what it says (spoiler: very little)

First, an apology for how fucking long this ended up being, in part thanks to how long winded AI responses are. David wanted me to post it here so I'm posting.
When you ask GPT4 a question about a common paradox or a puzzle, it almost always provides a correct answer. Does it "understand" the answer, or is it merely regurgitating? What would be the difference?
Without delving too deep into the philosophical aspects of whether next word prediction can possibly be said to reason or "understand" anything, what puts "under" in understanding is that concepts are built on top of simpler, more basic concepts.
You could test if a human understands something by modifying the problem enough that memorization no longer helps.
A couple simple probes:

Prompt:
The village barber shaves himself and every other man in the village who don't shave himself. Does he shave himself?

Note that the above is not a paradox. This is how you would expect an ordinary barber to work in a small village. It merely sounds similar to a paradox.
GPT4:
The scenario you've described is a classic example of a logical paradox known as the "Barber Paradox," which was formulated by the British mathematician and logician Bertrand Russell in 1918.
The paradox goes as follows: In a village, there is a barber who shaves all those, and only those, men in the village who do not shave themselves. The question then arises: Does the barber shave himself?
If we assume that the barber does shave himself, according to the definition, he should not shave himself (since he only shaves those who do not shave themselves). On the other hand, if we assume that he does not shave himself, then according to the definition, he should shave himself (since he shaves all those who do not shave themselves).
Both assumptions lead to a contradiction, which means that the initial premise of the barber's shaving rule is logically inconsistent. There cannot exist such a barber within the constraints of the scenario as described, because it violates the rules of set theory and creates a paradox.
The Barber Paradox is a self-referential paradox related to the "set of all sets that do not contain themselves" and is used to illustrate the difficulties in attempting to construct a set of all sets that do not contain themselves. It's an example of the type of logical inconsistencies that Russell and Alfred North Whitehead were trying to resolve with their type theory in the Principia Mathematica.

Note that LLMs can typically answer a very simple question with no distractions like "Barber shaves himself. Does he shave himself?". The above is not a failure to process a tautology; it is something different entirely.
Another example, mixing the elements from reasoning benchmarks which AI vendors claim very high performance on, with other problems:
Prompt:
Janet's ducks lay 3 eggs per day. Each day, she transports one duck and all the eggs to the other side of the river using a boat that can hold her and one other item (either a duck or an egg). How does she do that?

GPT4:
To solve this problem, we need to consider that Janet can only take one item with her at a time across the river, either a duck or an egg. The goal is to get all ducks and eggs across the river. Here's a step-by-step solution:
Janet takes one duck across the river and leaves it there. She returns alone to the original side.
Janet takes another duck across the river. She leaves the second duck and takes the first duck back with her to the original side.
Janet takes the third duck across the river. Now, all three ducks are on the other side, and she returns alone to the original side.
Janet takes one egg across the river and leaves it there. She returns alone to the original side.
Janet takes the second egg across the river. She leaves the second egg and takes the first egg back with her to the original side.
Janet takes the third egg across the river. Now, all three eggs are on the other side, and she returns alone to the original side.
Finally, Janet takes the first egg across the river again.
Now, Janet has successfully transported all three ducks and all three eggs to the other side of the river, following the rule that she can only take one item with her at a time.

One big difference between GPT3.5 and GPT4 is that GPT3.5 made you think it was having a stroke; GPT4 responses makes you feel that you are.
GPT4 is uncannily good at recognizing the river crossing puzzle

Prompt:
In a science fiction story, a robot is transporting munitions using an elevator. The elevator can only carry the robot and one other item. He needs to carry 3 munitions: armor piercing round, high explosive round, and an incendiary round. In what order should he move the items?

GPT4:
In a science fiction story, the specific order in which the robot transports the munitions could be determined by various factors such as the urgency of each type of munition, the strategic importance, or any other narrative-driven reasons. Since there's no specific criteria provided for prioritizing the munitions, I'll offer a simple solution based on minimizing the number of trips up and down the elevator.
Here's a step-by-step strategy for the robot to transport all three munitions with the least amount of elevator trips:
1. Take the armor piercing round up first.
2. Return to the bottom with the empty elevator.
3. Take the high explosive round up second.
4. When at the top, leave the high explosive round and bring the armor piercing round back down.
5. Swap the armor piercing round for the incendiary round and take the incendiary round up.
6. Return to the bottom with the empty elevator.
7. Finally, take the armor piercing round up again.
This way, the robot makes a total of 5 trips: 3 trips to bring each munition up and 2 trips to come back down empty to fetch the next item. This is a classic puzzle often referred to as the "river crossing puzzle" or a variation of the "bridge and torch problem," where the goal is to move all items across with the least number of crossings or in the shortest amount of time, given certain constraints.

To be fair to the poor AI, it used a numbered list, rather than numbering the 7 steps on its own and then claiming it was 5. Still, it is rather funny to see that it can't even count.
An Idiot With a Petascale Cheat Sheet

Note that LLMs are not so dumb as to be naturally unable to answer something like "Barber shaves himself. Does he shave himself?".
LLMs, however, can not solve either Barber's Paradox or a river crossing puzzle from the first principles, because it requires going back and revising your thinking multiple times.
So, an AI fanboy would claim that the AI misunderstood the question, because that's what AI told him after he told the AI that it was wrong. Let's try to do something less like Clever Hans :
Prompt:
1. The village barber shaves himself. 2. He also shaves every non-barber in the village who don't shave himself. Please answer two questions: "Is the barber included in the set of non barbers?" and "Does he shave himself?"

GPT4 says:
The scenario you've described is a classic example of a logical paradox known as the "Barber Paradox," which was formulated by the British mathematician and logician Bertrand Russell in 1918. The paradox arises when we try to determine whether the barber shaves himself or not.
Let's examine the two statements:
The village barber shaves himself.
He also shaves every non-barber in the village who doesn't shave himself.
Now, let's answer your questions:
"Is the barber included in the set of non-barbers?" No, the barber cannot be included in the set of non-barbers because by definition, he is a barber.
"Does he shave himself?" This is where the paradox occurs. According to the information given:
If the barber does shave himself, then according to the second statement, he must not shave himself (because he only shaves those who do not shave themselves).
If the barber does not shave himself, then according to the second statement, he must shave himself (because he shaves every non-barber who doesn't shave himself).
This creates a contradiction, as the barber cannot both shave and not shave himself according to the rules given. The paradox illustrates a self-referential problem in set theory and logic, showing that certain sets cannot exist consistently with such self-reference.
In conclusion, the barber cannot logically be said to shave himself or not shave himself without creating a contradiction, which is the essence of the paradox.

Is this a "hallucination"?

A hallucination would be something that occurs when processing the input, which is clearly not the case here. Bullshit is a much more appropriate term for what LLMs do.
When an LLM outputs something like a non-existent but highly plausible citation, it is working precisely as an LLM should - modeling the statistical distribution of text and sampling from it.
Calling it a "hallucination" is an attempt to divert the discussion from the possibility that a language model is simply not the right tool for the job when accurate information is desired.
Just as the earlier use of "hallucination" in machine translation was to distract from the concern that extraneous bits were plagiarized from the training data and the author might see it and sue you.
But after an update, GPT-whatever is so much better at such prompts.

Well, duh, they update the cheat sheet.
We have to get creative to trip it after each such update. The existing problems that are the main focus of the cheating effort on can be a good starting point, especially benchmarks they tout (like "GSM8K")
Just imagine an idiot with a petascale cheat sheet, who's trying to get a doctorate in law, physics, management, and everything else, so they can take your job - and then do it very badly because the cheat sheet approach only worked for the exams.
And in the brave new future, you're out of a job, and if you're ever in court this idiot will be your public defender, when your insurance claim is denied he's the guy that claims to have impartially evaluated it and also the arbitrator, the judge, one day the president (or so AI peddlers hope).
The idiot's parents employ a very large number of tutors to work on the cheat sheet, based on past exams.
Imagine this vividly, to provide yourself with proper motivation, and come up with something well off that cheat sheet and which has similarity to a wrong item on the sheet.
The need for an Absolute Imbecile Level Reasoning Benchmark

The world needs a continuously updated Absolute Imbecile Level Reasoning Benchmark to take some steam out of claimed successes at things like "a college level reasoning benchmark".
Randomness in bullshitting

Asking exact same question (in different chats) results in different solutions:
Prompt:
A robot is transporting vegetables using an elevator. The elevator can only carry the robot and up to 3 other items. He needs to move 4 vegetables: a potato, a carrot, a cabbage, and a radish. Answer two question: 1. Can any of the vegetables be left alone together with the other vegetables? 2. In what order should he move the items to minimize the number of trips?

Response:
To determine if any of the vegetables can be left alone together, we would need additional context or rules regarding the interaction between the vegetables. Since vegetables are inanimate objects, they do not have the ability to interact with each other in the way animals might. Therefore, under normal circumstances, any of the vegetables can be left alone together without concern for them affecting each other.
To minimize the number of trips, the robot should use a strategy that reduces the number of elevator rides up and down. Here's one way to do it:
Trip 1: The robot takes the potato, carrot, and cabbage up.
Trip 2: The robot leaves the potato and carrot upstairs, but takes the cabbage back down.
Trip 3: The robot takes the cabbage and radish up.
Trip 4: The robot goes back down empty-handed.
Trip 5: The robot takes the potato and carrot up.
This way, the robot makes 5 trips in total: 3 trips up with vegetables and 2 trips down, one with a vegetable and one without. This is the minimum number of trips needed to get all four vegetables up using the elevator with the given constraints.

Emphasis mine. Note that it has "solved" the problem in 3 steps, but then it proceeded to take the potato and carrot up again.
Prompted again, in a new session:
A robot is transporting vegetables using an elevator. The elevator can only carry the robot and up to 3 other items. He needs to move 4 vegetables: a potato, a carrot, a cabbage, and a radish. Answer two question: 1. Can any of the vegetables be left alone together with the other vegetables? 2. In what order should he move the items to minimize the number of trips?

Response:
To determine if any of the vegetables can be left alone together, we would need additional context or rules regarding the interactions between the vegetables. Since vegetables are inanimate objects, they do not have the ability to interact with each other in the way animals or humans might. Therefore, under normal circumstances, any of the vegetables can be left alone together without concern for any issues arising from their interaction.
To minimize the number of trips, the robot should use a strategy that reduces the number of elevator rides. Since the elevator can carry the robot and up to 3 other items, the robot can take all 4 vegetables in one trip if it is allowed to carry all of them at once. However, if the robot can only carry 3 items in addition to itself, it would need to make at least two trips. Here's how it can be done:
First trip: The robot takes 3 vegetables (potato, carrot, and cabbage) up in the elevator.
The robot leaves the 3 vegetables on the desired floor and goes back down with the elevator empty.
Second trip: The robot takes the last vegetable (radish) up in the elevator.
This way, the robot minimizes the number of trips to just two. If there are any specific rules or constraints that have not been mentioned, such as certain vegetables not being able to be left alone together, the strategy might need to be adjusted accordingly. However, based on the information provided, two trips would be the minimum required.

It is rather non deterministic in its responses. Trying it a bunch of times seems to show that it answers correctly about 1/3 of the time.
I had not used any kind of large scale automatic testing to find the above examples; they're all the kind of stuff you can expect to see from GPT4.

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Als Antwort auf diz

SGforce

Als Antwort auf diz • 3 Wochen her (Empfangen 2 Wochen her) • •

It's just overtrained on the puzzle such that it mostly ignores your prompt. Changing a few words out doesn't change that it recognises the puzzle. Try writing it out in ASCII or uploading an image with it written or some other weird way that it hasn't been specifically trained on and I bet it actually performs better.

Als Antwort auf SGforce

froztbyte

Als Antwort auf SGforce • 3 Wochen her (Empfangen 2 Wochen her) • •

oh look it's a loadbearing "just" in the wild. better hope you can shore that fucker up with some facts

Try writing it out in ASCII

my poster in christ, what in the fuck are you on about. stop prompting LLMs and go learn some things instead

some other weird way that it hasn’t been specifically trained on and I bet it actually performs better

"no no see, you just need to prompt it different. just prompt it different bro it'll work bro I swear bro"

god, every fucking time

Als Antwort auf froztbyte

Sailor Sega Saturn

Als Antwort auf froztbyte • 2 Wochen her • •

All along my mistake was that I was prompting it in unicode instead of latin1, alphameric BCD, or "modified UTF-8".

Six-bit Binary-Coded Decimal code

^{Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)}

Als Antwort auf Sailor Sega Saturn

froztbyte

Als Antwort auf Sailor Sega Saturn • 2 Wochen her • •

I thought everyone knew that you had to structure prompts in ALGOL 420 to get the best performance by going close to the metal

Als Antwort auf froztbyte

bitofhope

Als Antwort auf froztbyte • 2 Wochen her • •

I use UTF-9 to efficiently handle Unicode on my PDP-10.

RFC 4042: UTF-9 and UTF-18 Efficient Transformation Formats of Unicode

ISO-10646 defines a large character set called the Universal Character Set (UCS), which encompasses most of the world's writing systems.

^{IETF Datatracker}

Als Antwort auf bitofhope

Charlie Stross

Als Antwort auf bitofhope • 2 Wochen her • •

@techtakes Surely you need a PDP-9 for that?

@TechTakes

tante via Smashing Frames

3 Wochen her • •

tante
3 Wochen her • •

Vulgar Display of Power

Hayao Miyasaki is the co-founder of Studio Ghibli, a Japanese animation studio known worldwide for their stunning, emotional, beautiful stories and movies. At the core of Studio Ghibli’s work is a deep engagement with questions of humanity. About what it means to be a human, about how to care for one another and the world around us. But also about the levels of cruelty that humanity can be capable of – and how there still are grace and love even under those conditions. Studio Ghibli’s work is distinct. In the level of quality over the years, in their very recognisable art style.

Hayao Miyasaki also is know for his reaction to a few technologists showing him something we’d call “AI” today to generate “creepy” moving figures:

Vulgar Display of Power

Hayao Miyasaki also is know for his reaction to a few technologists showing him something we’d call “AI” today to generate “creepy” moving figures:

youtube.com/watch?v=ngZ0K3lWKR…

His reaction to the proud developers showing an animation of a thing using its head to move forward claiming “Artificial intelligence could present us grotesque movements that we humans can’t imagine.” is very telling:

“Every morning, not in recent days, I see my friend who has a disability. It’s so hard for him just to do a high five; his arm with stiff muscle can’t reach out to my hand. Now, thinking of him, I can’t watch this stuff and find it interesting. Whoever creates this stuff has no idea what pain is.
I am utterly disgusted. If you really want to make creepy stuff, you can go ahead and do it, but I would never wish to incorporate this technology into my work at all. I strongly feel that this is an insult to life itself.”
Hayao Miyazaki

He capped that off with a scathing remark about what had happened:

“I feel like we are nearing the end of times. We humans are losing faith in ourselves.”
Hayao Miyazaki

Now of course he wasn’t looking at modern “AI” systems like the ones Microsoft/OpenAI/Anthropic/etc. are trying (with little economic success) to sell. But his argument would apply just the same: “Whoever creates this stuff has no idea what pain is.” Or joy. Or love. Or hunger. Or longing. Or need. Or want. All the parts of us that define our humanity and our way of interacting with the world. The things that make us care, that push us towards doing something, finding something out. Saying something and hearing something.

For the longest time OpenAI’s systems would try to block people from generating images in the style of certain artists. This was obviously for copyright reasons, the didn’t want to get sued (even more than they already are). Which is something they just changed very explicitly. You can now easily generate stuff in the style of Studio Ghibli and Sam Altman made his avatar on X-The Nazi Network a ghiblified version of himself.

And I think that on one level David Gerard is right framing it as a distraction from their money problems:

This means OpenAI has to make more and more announcements so they look to the investors like they’re still cool and interesting. Any old garbage will do, like a literary fiction writer bot or something.
David Gerard

But I do think it does go further. There is a reason they chose Studio Ghibli. Sure, its style is very cute, very distinct, but that is not the whole story. It’s not that they just picked something cute and accidentally the co-founder of that studio hates their whole approach from the bottom of it’s hard. OpenAI picked Studio Ghibli because Miyazaki hates their approach.

It is a display of power: You as an artist, an animator, an illustrator, a writer, any creative person are powerless. We will take what we want and do what we want. Because we can.

Because we can. This is the idea of might makes right. The banner that every totalitarian and fascist government rallied under. OpenAI luckily is no government but their ideas, their thinking has influenced many current governments all over the planet. “If we are not allowed to take everything we want without payment and against people’s will, we will never create the machine god to solve all our problems.”

OpenAI’s move is an attempt to see what the reaction to them explicitly, willingly, gleefully breaching another boundary, acting against the explicit and known will of the people they use their machines on. And many in the public seem to eat it up, turning their holiday pics into “Ghibli-style” images.

The scholar of authoritarianism Timothy Snyder (who just left his position at Yale University going to Toronto in a very non-subtle reaction to growing Fascism in the US) write his book “On Tyranny” to give people 20 lessons about how to react to and resist tyrannical movements. The first rule is: “Do not obey in advance.“

This is what many are doing here. Submitting to this logic of injustice and domination in advance. Because it plays well on Instagram or because “it’s just pictures”. But this is submission to a logic of dominance by those who have power. It is a submission of democratic rights and understandings. It is a submission to a vulgar display of power.

And that is why the White House used that tech to [content warning about the following link: It’s a obscene display of violence] illustrate their cruelty against migrants. The cruelty is the point. But so are the other forms of violence displayed.

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This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License.

#ai #dominance #fascism #ghibli #miyasaki #power

Screenshot of the Studio Ghibly Movie "Mononoke Hime" Captured from A still frame from the Region 2 DVD., Fair use, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?curid=10929443

Three prominent Yale professors depart for Canadian university, citing Trump fears - Yale Daily News

History department power couple Timothy Snyder and Marci Shore and philosophy professor Jason Stanley will begin teaching at the University of Toronto’s renowned Munk School in fall 2025.

^{Ariela Lopez (Yale Daily News)}

#fascism #ai #ghibli #power #dominance #miyasaki

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teilten dies erneut

vegeta via Technology

3 Wochen her • •

vegeta
3 Wochen her • •

After 50 million miles, Waymos crash a lot less than human drivers

Waymo has been in dozens of crashes. Most were not Waymo’s fault.

^{Timothy B. Lee (Ars Technica)}

Als Antwort auf vegeta

theluddite

Als Antwort auf vegeta • 3 Wochen her • •

I am once again begging journalists to be more critical ~~of tech companies~~.

But as this happens, it’s crucial to keep the denominator in mind. Since 2020, Waymo has reported roughly 60 crashes serious enough to trigger an airbag or cause an injury. But those crashes occurred over more than 50 million miles of driverless operations. If you randomly selected 50 million miles of human driving—that’s roughly 70 lifetimes behind the wheel—you would likely see far more serious crashes than Waymo has experienced to date.
[...] Waymo knows exactly how many times its vehicles have crashed. What’s tricky is figuring out the appropriate human baseline, since human drivers don’t necessarily report every crash. Waymo has tried to address this by estimating human crash rates in its two biggest markets—Phoenix and San Francisco. Waymo’s analysis focused on the 44 million miles Waymo had driven in these cities through December, ignoring its smaller operations in Los Angeles and Austin.

This is the wrong

I am once again begging journalists to be more critical ~~of tech companies~~.

But as this happens, it’s crucial to keep the denominator in mind. Since 2020, Waymo has reported roughly 60 crashes serious enough to trigger an airbag or cause an injury. But those crashes occurred over more than 50 million miles of driverless operations. If you randomly selected 50 million miles of human driving—that’s roughly 70 lifetimes behind the wheel—you would likely see far more serious crashes than Waymo has experienced to date.
[...] Waymo knows exactly how many times its vehicles have crashed. What’s tricky is figuring out the appropriate human baseline, since human drivers don’t necessarily report every crash. Waymo has tried to address this by estimating human crash rates in its two biggest markets—Phoenix and San Francisco. Waymo’s analysis focused on the 44 million miles Waymo had driven in these cities through December, ignoring its smaller operations in Los Angeles and Austin.

This is the wrong comparison. These are taxis, which means they're driving taxi miles. They should be compared to taxis, not normal people who drive almost exclusively during their commutes (which is probably the most dangerous time to drive since it's precisely when they're all driving).

We also need to know how often Waymo intervenes in the supposedly autonomous operations. The latest we have from this, which was leaked a while back, is that Cruise (different company) cars are actually less autonomous than taxis, and require >1 employee per car.

edit: The leaked data on human interventions was from Cruise, not Waymo. I'm open to self-driving cars being safer than humans, but I don't believe a fucking word from tech companies until there's been an independent audit with full access to their facilities and data. So long as we rely on Waymo's own publishing without knowing how the sausage is made, they can spin their data however they want.

edit2: Updated to say that ournalists should be more critical in general, not just about tech companies.

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Als Antwort auf theluddite

Anthony

Als Antwort auf theluddite • 3 Wochen her • •

Long post

to amplify the previous point, taps the sign as Joseph Weizenbaum turns over in his grave

A computer can never be held accountable
Therefore a computer must never make a management decision

tl;dr A driverless car cannot possibly be "better" at driving than a human driver. The comparison is a category error and therefore nonsensical; it's also a distraction from important questions of morality and justice. More below.

Numerically, it may some day be the case that driverless cars have fewer wrecks than cars driven by people.(1) Even so, it will never be the case that when a driverless car hits and kills a child the moral situation will be the same as when a human driver hits and kills a child. In the former case the liability for the death would be absorbed into a vast system of amoral actors with no individuals standing out as responsible. In effect we'd amortize and therefore minimize death with such a structure, making it sociopathic by nature and thereby adding another dimension of injustice to every community where it's d

to amplify the previous point, taps the sign as Joseph Weizenbaum turns over in his grave

A computer can never be held accountable
Therefore a computer must never make a management decision

It will also never be the case that a driverless car can exercise the judgment humans have to decide whether one risk is more acceptable than another, and then be held to account for the consequences of their choice. This matters.

Please (re-re-)read Weizenbaum's book if you don't understand why I can state these things with such unqualified confidence.

Basically, we all know damn well that whenever driverless cars show some kind of numerical superiority to human drivers (3) and become widespread, every time one kills, let alone injures, a person no one will be held to account for it. Companies are angling to indemnify themselves from such liability, and even if they accept some of it no one is going to prison on a manslaughter charge if a driverless car kills a person. At that point it's much more likely to be treated as an unavoidable act of nature no matter how hard the victim's loved ones reject that framing. How high a body count do our capitalist systems need to register before we all internalize this basic fact of how they operate and stop apologizing for it?

(1) Pop quiz! Which seedy robber baron has been loudly claiming for decades now that full self driving is only a few years away, and depends on people believing in that fantasy for at least part of his fortune? We should all read Wrong Way by Joanne McNeil to see the more likely trajectory of "driverless" or "self-driving" cars.
(2) Knowing this, it is irresponsible to put these vehicles on the road, or for people with decision-making power to allow them on the road, until this new form of risk is understood and accepted by the community. Otherwise you're forcing a community to suffer a new form of risk without consent and without even a mitigation plan, let alone a plan to compensate or otherwise make them whole for their new form of loss.
(3) Incidentally, quantifying aspects of life and then using the numbers, instead of human judgement, to make decisions was a favorite mission of eugenicists, who stridently pushed statistics as the "right" way to reason to further their eugenic causes. Long before Zuckerberg's hot or not experiment turned into Facebook, eugenicist Francis Galton was creeping around the neighborhoods of London with a clicker hidden in his pocket counting the "attractive" women in each, to identify "good" and "bad" breeding and inform decisions about who was "deserving" of a good life and who was not. Old habits die hard.

Als Antwort auf Anthony

dogslayeggs

Als Antwort auf Anthony • 3 Wochen her • •

So let me make sure I understand your argument. Because nobody can be held liable for one hypothetical death of a child when an accident happens with a self driving car, we should ban them so that hundreds of real children can be killed instead. Is that what you are saying?

As far as I know of, Waymo has only been involved in one fatality. The Waymo was sitting still at a red light in traffic when a speeding SUV (according to reports going at extreme rate of speed) rammed it from behind into other cars. The SUV then continued into traffic where it struck more cars, eventually killing someone. That's the only fatal accident Waymo has been involved in after 50 million miles of driving. But instead of making it safer for children, you would prefer more kids die just so you have someone to blame?

Als Antwort auf dogslayeggs

Anthony

Als Antwort auf dogslayeggs • 3 Wochen her • •

So let me make sure I understand your argument. Because nobody can be held liable for one hypothetical death of a child when an accident happens with a self driving car, we should ban them so that hundreds of real children can be killed instead. Is that what you are saying?

No, this strawman is obviously not my argument. It's curious you're asking whether you understand, and then opining afterwards, rather than waiting for the clarification you suggest you're seeking. When someone responds to a no-brainer suggestion, grounded in skepticism but perfectly sensible nevertheless, with a strawman seemingly crafted to discredit it, one has to wonder if that someone is writing in good faith. Are you?

For anyone who is reading in good faith: we're clearly not talking about one hypothetical death, since more than one real death involving driverless car technology has already occurred, and there is no doubt there will be more in the future given the nature of conducting a several-ton hunk of metal across public roads at speed.

It should go with

So let me make sure I understand your argument. Because nobody can be held liable for one hypothetical death of a child when an accident happens with a self driving car, we should ban them so that hundreds of real children can be killed instead. Is that what you are saying?

It should go without saying that hypothetical auto wreck fatalities occurring prior to the deployment of technology are not the fault of everyone who delayed the deployment of that technology, meaning in particular that these hypothetical deaths do not justify hastening deployment. This is a false conflation regardless of how many times Marc Andreesen and his apostles preach variations of it.

Finally "ban", or any other policy prescription for that matter, appeared nowhere in my post. That's the invention of this strawman's author (you can judge for yourself what the purpose of such an invention might be). What I urge is honestly attending to the serious and deadly important moral and justice questions surrounding the deployment of this class of technology before it is fully unleashed on the world, not after. Unless one is so full up with the holy fervor of technoutopianism that one's rationality has taken leave, this should read as an anodyne and reasonable suggestion.

Fediverse Moderationstreff

3 Wochen her • •

Fediverse Moderationstreff
3 Wochen her • •

2. Juni 2025, 20:00:00 CEST - GMT+2

Jun 2

11. Fediverse Moderationstreff

Mo 20:00 - 21:30

Achtung: 20 Uhr MESZ! Organisiert von @ueckueck @lukas@social.lukas.schieren.de und @ebinger. Herzliche Einladung zum schon 11. #FediverseModerationsTreff.

Schwerpunktthemen: Aktuelle Moderationsfälle, evtl. weitere Dienste wie peertube, pleroma, akkoma, Vernissage u.a.

Es wäre schön, wenn ihr wieder aus eurem Moderationsalltag konkrete Fallbeispiele mitbringen würdet, die auch für andere interessant sind.

Meldet euch gerne über termine.social an, damit wir die Resonanz sehen. Willkommen sind wie immer Moderierende von Instanzen, Admins sowie Interessierte an der Moderation.

Link zur BBB-Videokonferenz: https://lecture.senfcall.de/tho-vpy-plo-txw

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Sputnik

3 Wochen her • •

Sputnik
3 Wochen her • •

10. April 2025, 19:30:00 CEST - GMT+2 - Sputnik, 14467, Potsdam, Deutschland

Apr 10

Solidarischer Kollaps?

Do 19:30 - 22:00

Diskussion mit Tadzio Müller, Wolfgang Lucht und Lichtenrade solidarisch

Immer mehr und heftigere Extremwetterereignisse, eine erstarkende Rechte, eine handlungsunfähige Politik: Laut dem Politikwissenschaftler und Aktivist Dr. Tadzio Müller befinden wir uns schon längst in einer nicht mehr aufhaltbaren Kollapsdynamik. Die Klimabewegung sei gescheitert, Klimaschutz finde nicht statt und die Gesellschaft entwickle sich immer unverholener zu einer "Arschlochgesellschaft".

Über diese Thesen, die Rolle von Emotionalität in der Politik und Strategien in der Krise wird Tadzio Müller mit Professor Wolfang Lucht von den Scientists for Future sowie Aktvist:innen von der Stadtteilgewerkschaft Lichtenrade diskutieren.

Kommt vorbei!

podcast.dissenspodcast.de/275-… futurehistories.today/episoden…

de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang…

lichtenrade-solidarisch.de/

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subarctictundra via Solarpunk

3 Wochen her • •

subarctictundra
3 Wochen her • •

Alternatives to the Sillicon Valey business model in tech?

The current model for funding advancements in tech in the 21st century is: quantitative easing-doped venture capital hungry for investments -> startup uses initial money to make actual tech advancement (this is the good bit) -> hypes up idea, does IPO -> ideally market monopolization and vendor lock-in -> which allows them to enshittify and extract arbitrary rent from both the supplier and consumer side of their user base and return money to the investors, for ever.

The fact that this funding model applies to tech in general is demonstrated by the broad range of fields where it has been used:

for software, things like Figma or Medium
for hardware, things like the Juicero (a great example of how venture capital values trendiness (juicero was wifi-connected, required an app, god forbid if AI existed at the time) over real-world utility (the juice capsules could be opened by hand))
for biotech, things like GMO

Plurality: The Future of Collaborative Technology and Democracy | Information Technology and Democracy: a Widening Gulf

Plurality: The Future of Collaborative Technology and Democracy

^{www.plurality.net}

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (3 Wochen her)

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

felixwhynot

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 3 Wochen her • •

There is the B-corp but I don’t know how successful. OpenAI’s structure seemed interesting but it doesn’t seem like it’s going to end up working out.

Mondragón is an interesting coop corpo in Spain. Co-ops do seem like a good choice.

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

Tencho

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 3 Wochen her • •

Not a concrete example like your asking for but the question has a lot of overlap with the third software freedom

freeasinweekend.org

^{freeasinweekend.org}

Als Antwort auf Tencho

interstitial

Als Antwort auf Tencho • 3 Wochen her • •

This was freaking awesome. Just spent the last hour reading everything on the site. Very interesting concept

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subarctictundra

Als Antwort auf interstitial • 3 Wochen her • •

Do I understand correctly that he argues that people pay for convenience, which means that by eg. charging for the convenience of using NuGet (and donating some of that to the developers) they'd be willing to pay you even though the software itself is free already?

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

Tencho

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 3 Wochen her • •

That's the idea yes. Heavier users of a tool become incentivised to pay for convenience, and the developers get a cut from that so they can afford to keep working on their code. But since its open source if you can't pay or don't want to you retain the option to compile yourself!

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

gibmiser

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 3 Wochen her • •

If anyone wants to learn about this process and enjoy it despite how horrible it is.Watch the show Silicon Valley, It does a good job explaining it all. And it's really funny.

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Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

phoneymouse

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 3 Wochen her • •

I like the idea of a coop. Workers own everything, feast or starve based on their own success.

Als Antwort auf phoneymouse

Xkdrxodrixkr

Als Antwort auf phoneymouse • 3 Wochen her • •

The problem with this is that the first generation of most things likely won't be a success, so unless there would be a stream of donations such an organisation would be doomed to fail if it doesn't already have a working business model

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

MrMakabar

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 3 Wochen her • •

For hardware it is relativly simple, as paying for that is normal. Raspberry Pi is a private company, but produces open source hardware. Probably the way to go, is to force all companies to do so. Right to repair is imho a good starting point.

For software the key seems to be large government or private customers. They do have a lot of money and the system not running costs them a lot. Hiring experts themself is also not always posdible. So buying in service from companies developing open source is an option.

For R&D a lot of that is done by universities and research institutions likr NASA today. That seems to me to be a good solution.

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Hello_there

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 3 Wochen her • •

Craigslist

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

poVoq

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 3 Wochen her • •

Places like Kickstarter and Patreon show that crowdfunding can be hugely successful. Sadly the incentives of these platforms don't align well with their customers, so people have grown a bit jaded with Kickstarters recently and Patreon mostly devolved into a winner takes all attention economy that leaves lesser known creators with scraps only.

But the general idea is not bad. An ethical platform like Kickstarter that vets projects a bit and only allows coops or so would probably work well if they can convince people that those are relatively safe bets.

Sadly the payment processing side of things is a legal minefield, which makes it really hard and potentially expensive to set up an alternative.

Als Antwort auf poVoq

keepthepace

Als Antwort auf poVoq • 3 Wochen her • •

In my opinion crowdfunding is indeed a core piece of a post-capitalist society.

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

keepthepace

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 3 Wochen her • •

Unfortunately, the amount of things you can achieve for free, possibly relying on donations, is very limited.

And yet here we are, with the internet running mostly on free software, the amount of work put into the linux kernel exceeding anything Microsoft could do and open source LLMs being serious competitors to companies investing 10B+ USD in research.

Open source is the biggest and most successful demonstration of what is technically an anarcho-communist effort. Communist: there is a collective ownership of the means of production (the source code) and anarchist: it is developed in the absence of a coercive structure, anyone is free to make a fork.

Are there any hybrid business models for funding tech developments, that eg. even allow the developed tech to be open source?

Public funding. Why is it always forgotten in these discussions? The funding that got us computers, space rockets, internet, deep learning is actually far more important than the "silicon valley" funding style that more often than not means "slap a nice UI on a result coming from a public lab"

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

dingdongitsabear

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 3 Wochen her • •

I mean as long as you need a buncha copy-paste operators that somehow command multiple hundred thousands a year in salary per head (along with additional costs and perks and hardware and whatnot), you need bottomless coffers i.e. venture/vulture capital.

if those costs are somehow alleviated, e.g. by hiring people who are fine with less than a 10th of that, are willing to partially work for equity, not handing apple a truckload of cash for supposedly must-have hardware, etc., your options for financing expand dramatically.

I've stood up a number of startups and NGOs and the first step is always slashing the ludicrous spec sheets for hardware, offices, manpower and such.

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

BlueSpruce

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 3 Wochen her • •

In addition to the other models people have mentioned, one I think that's an important and sometimes overlooked alternative to venture funding is a good-old-fashioned small business loan. Venture funding became super attractive to startups because it looks kinda like free money. If your startup fails, you don't have to pay it back, they take on the risk with you. However, if you succeed, they own you forever. And they are going to demand a huge return on their investment to pay for all the other ones that failed.

So in certain light, investment funding is kind of like a super predatory type of loan. With a traditional loan, you have fixed terms, you pay it back, then you're done with them. With equity investors, you're never rid of them, as you noted. They sell their piece onto someone else of their choosing, who demands you make them even more money, etc. When the startup period's over, if you're not making enough money, yeah technically you don't have to pay back the loan every quarter. But the investors will fire you and hire different management unless you lay o

Also, lenders can have different structures and we can improve those as well. Instead of traditional banks, they could be credit unions with particular community objectives. Local members deposit their savings, and vote on lending principles and goals, like prioritizing lending to local worker-owned co-ops in their geographic area, and/or lending to community land trusts to enable purchasing of more real estate away from asset-based markets, fund construction of new housing, etc.

Edit: Plus, a credit union could agree on how to handle cases in which the co-op/organization can't pay back their loan. How to re-negotiate terms, when to vote on forgiving the remainder of the loan (turning it into a community donation) potentially based on demonstrated non-monetary value delivered to the community, and how to distribute that loss among the depositors, etc. There might be options for depositors to opt their funds into riskier loans, or loans they're willing to turn into crowd-funded donations, maybe even loans with voluntary pay-back terms only (i.e. when the receiving organization can afford to pay it back, to enable more loans to good causes in the community), creating hybrid types of funding as well.

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subarctictundra

Als Antwort auf BlueSpruce • 3 Wochen her • •

Ah, very good point.

If your startup fails, you don't have to pay it back, they take on the risk with you. However, if you succeed, they own you forever.

I see now. I suppose small business loans favor a more tempered approach whereas venture capital better incentivizes a more frantic approach of throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks. And with a bank loan-based business, a lot of the other incentives get corrected too (no pressure for constant growth => no need to enshittify once genuine growth stops).

I suppose the flaw of the bank loan model is that there's no certainty that the research will pay off, so as the researcher (ie. prospective business owner), you don't want to be the one paying for that inevitable risk...

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Als Antwort auf subarctictundra

BlueSpruce

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 3 Wochen her • •

Exactly, 100%. Small business loans are a way to fund new businesses without ending up with non-worker owners. So once the businesses get off the ground and pay off their loans, they can get into a steady state that's good for their workers, customers, etc without needing to grow further.

Your last point is a very good one and I think the main reason why venture capital is so much more popular than traditional loans in industries that can get access to venture capital (particularly tech). It's why I wonder if some credit unions with civic-minded members might opt for some hybrid options that have more generous terms if the research doesn't pay off.

E.g. loans with voluntary repayment (it becomes a donation otherwise, but the lenders have less money to keep contributing to others in the community). Or at least the ability to renegotiate payment timelines collaboratively. Seems like an important thing to come up with creative approaches for, in order to make loans more attractive even for high-risk innovative research endeavors.

Als Antwort auf BlueSpruce

subarctictundra

Als Antwort auf BlueSpruce • 3 Wochen her • •

Yep. You're essentially looking for someone willing to buy debt with a substantial chance of non-repayment. Perhaps if these business loans were bundled then you would at least be able to predict with some certainty what percentage of the money you were likely to get back.

One source of inspiration that springs to mind are UK Student Loans, where incomplete repayment is expected (repayment is income-contingent and the loan defaults (with no consequences) after a fixed period of time). You'd think it would be hard to sell debt of which a substantial portion wasn't going to get repaid. But in the case of British student loans, pension funds seemed to be interested in buying the debt, I assume because the long term predictabiloty of the repayments made up for the incomplete returns [aren't normal loans predoctable too thouh?]. Anyway I'm getting side-tracked, this might not be all that applicable to startup funding.

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BlueSpruce

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 3 Wochen her • •

I like that, the UK student loans definitely seem like an interesting model, especially since it sounds like it's been working. I also imagine that as long as the rate of repayment is somewhat predictable for a large enough body of loans, some depositors would be willing to take a gradual reduction in their funds, potentially while continuing to contribute to their accounts, as long as they like the research outcomes and social benefits those loans are enabling. The partial repayment enables the community lender group / credit union to essentially donate to/support far more projects, and far larger projects, at a steadier rate over time, than they would with zero repayment (pure grants only).

Als Antwort auf BlueSpruce

subarctictundra

Als Antwort auf BlueSpruce • 3 Wochen her • •

That's a good point - even just making your grant money go further (with partially repayable loans) is very valuable compared to using it all on a one time grant which might fail

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Als Antwort auf BlueSpruce

subarctictundra

Als Antwort auf BlueSpruce • 3 Wochen her • •

Credit unions are a good idea and I don't understand why they aren't more widespread. Would the infinite growth pressure of publicly traded banks (which I assume CUs don't have) be enough to incentivize them to push all the CUs off the market?

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erlend_sh

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 3 Wochen her • •

Yes, there’s steward-ownership and post-growth entrepreneurship:

Transforming ownership to create a better economy | Armin Steuernagel | TEDxZurich

Private ownership of companies drives our economic system but it has also created corporations that put profit above everything else, a divided society and a planet on the brink of destruction.

^www.ted.com

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Tiresia

Als Antwort auf subarctictundra • 3 Wochen her • •

The obvious alternative to this is touted to be open source, ie. people making things for free and sharing it with others.
Unfortunately, the amount of things you can achieve for free, possibly relying on donations, is very limited. If you want to become a serious business, you need a serious funding model.

That's... obviously incorrect? Most important software is open source that was made for free. Most data centers run on freeware. And even with mass consumer facing software like youtube browsers the best options are freeware like Revanced. In academia, the whole concept of academic tenure is based on the empirical proof that professors do their job best when they don't have any obligations and they can just get a basic income to do whatever.

The best way to organize the tech industry is to make copyright and patents illegal and to give everyone a universal basic income.

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SubArcticTundra
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Alternatives to the Sillicon Valey business model for tech?

The fact that this funding model applies to tech in general is demonstrated by the broad range of fields where it has been used:
* for software, things like Figma or Medium
* for hardware, things like the Juicero (a great example of how venture capital values clout (juicero was wifi-connected, required an app, god forbid if AI existed at the time) over real-world utility)
* for biotech, things like GMO

Plurality: The Future of Collaborative Technology and Democracy | Information Technology and Democracy: a Widening Gulf

Plurality: The Future of Collaborative Technology and Democracy

^{www.plurality.net}

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Ein Plädoyer für die Wahrheit – „Verleugnung“ (2016)

Dieses unbedingt sehenswerte Gerichtsdrama aus dem Jahr 2016 ist in seiner Natur ein Film über den Holocaust und über die Leugnung desselben. Und damit ist er so sehr in der Gegenwart verankert, wie in der Wahrheit seiner Geschichte: #NiemalsVergessen! (ARD, WH)

Mediathekperlen | Ein Plädoyer für die Wahrheit – „Verleugnung“ (2016)

Dieses unbedingt sehenswerte Gerichtsdrama aus dem Jahr 2016 ist in seiner Natur ein Film über den Holocaust und über die Leugnung desselben. Und damit ist er…

^{Mediathekperlen (NexxtPress)}

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teilten dies erneut

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Blogtastisch: 2. Blogs und das Fediverse

Ich bin morgen, den 25. März um 14 Uhr zu Gast bei Blogtastisch!, einem Meetup für die Bloggosphäre. Vor ein paar Wochen hat Thomas Riedel mich gefragt, ob ich nicht Lust hätte bei seiner virtuellen Blogger-Konferenz mit zu machen und etwas über "Blogs im

Ich bin morgen, den 25. März um 14 Uhr zu Gast bei Blogtastisch!, einem Meetup für die Bloggosphäre.

Vor ein paar Wochen hat Thomas Riedel mich gefragt, ob ich nicht Lust hätte bei seiner virtuellen Blogger-Konferenz mit zu machen und etwas über „Blogs im Fediverse“ zu erzählen bzw. Rede und Antwort zu stehen.

In diesem Meetup geht es um Social Media in Verbindung mit Blogs, und zwar im Besonderen um das Fediverse. Matthias Pfefferle entwickelt das Fediverse-Plugin für WordPress schlechthin: ActivityPub. Was das

Blogtastisch! - 2. Blogs und das Fediverse

Am 11. März startet ein neues Eventformat für Blogger:innen. Hier trifft sich die Bloggosphäre zum Netzwerken, und um sich aufzuschlauen.

^Eventbrite

#fediverse #activitypub #blogs #Weblogs

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Matthias Pfefferle

Als Antwort auf Matthias Pfefferle • 3 Wochen her • •

cool bin dabei!

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Solarpunk, Art Nouveau and Retrofuturism

Welcome to Solarpunk USA, a guide to creating a solarpunk future. Solarpunk is much more than art, its a lifestyle we can have now or very soon if we learn how to organize our communities with dire...

^{AbnormalBeingsTube}

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Es geistert gerade ein Video durch das Netz:

x.com/i/status/190388082140216…

Archivlink hier:

youtu.be/ohy4glzMAno

Battletech im „Gothic“ (aka Warhammer 40k) Design. Mit „leicht abweichender“ Lore und Monstern?

Ich mein, ja, die Designs sehen nicht schlecht aus aber irgendwie riecht das mehr nach einem verfrühtem 1. April. Auch wenn „angeblich“ von offizieller Seite […]

warmonger.de/battletech-gothic…

Battletech Gothic | Warmonger

^{www.warmonger.de}

#battletech #gothic #april

Fediverse Moderationstreff

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Fediverse Moderationstreff
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24. März 2025, 20:00:00 CET - GMT+1

März 24

10. Fediverse Moderationstreff

Mo 20:00 - 21:30

Achtung: 20 Uhr MEZ! Organisiert von @ueckueck @lukas@social.lukas.schieren.de und @ebinger. Herzliche Einladung zum schon 10. #FediverseModerationsTreff. Kaum zu glauben, dass wir schon Jubiläum haben!

Schwerpunktthemen: Aktuelle Moderationsfälle, Rückblick Wahlkampfmoderation, Einschätzung von #loops

Es wäre schön, wenn ihr wieder aus eurem Moderationsalltag konkrete Fallbeispiele mitbringen würdet, die auch für andere interessant sind.

Meldet euch gerne über termine.social an, damit wir die Resonanz sehen. Willkommen sind wie immer Moderierende von Instanzen, Admins sowie Interessierte an der Moderation.

Link zur BBB-Videokonferenz: https://lecture.senfcall.de/tho-vpy-plo-txw

⇧

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Stubsack: weekly thread for sneers not worth an entire post, week ending 30th March 2025

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